barry bonds - Page 2

barry bonds sucks balls...i have a pix of his favorite to prove it.
DL at your own risk...it's NSFW...
another mod and remove this if he/she feels the need to, but it has the NSFW and it's not showing outright on your screen.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hayden06F4i

gringo brings up a number of good points....why should/would we look the other way if the guy was nice?

i doubt that 70% of players where using steroids, but that is somehting we'll never probably know.
its been proven (somehow) that steroids will not help pitchers throw harder, only recover from injury and between starts faster and better. this is a big deal though especially with a long grueling season.
HGH is not tested for, to test for that MLB would have to require a blood test, that is the only way possible to detect it.....personally i think that is what barry bonds is taking.
and yes WHY do we look the other way with football players?


last point.....yes barry is an ass hat.

While it's possible for Bonds to be taking HGH, it would not provide nearly as much of an increase in size/power as some are claiming. Most of you are ignorant of the science behind Human Growth Hormone, and have little, if any, knowledge of its workings or even what HGH "is." Growth Hormone is naturally occuring in the body, and it's essentially just a 191 amino acid chain (Read: Protein.) Human Growth Hormone by itself is not all that anabolic, but when thrown into the mix with anabolic steroids and/or exogenous insulin because quite potent.

^^Not specifically aimed at you Hayden, just a statement in general.

Then you truely are a sports purist ffingers, none of my statements were aimed at you in particular. I'm merely speaking from a standpoint that people should not be shocked to find out that top level athletes (yes, that even means the olympics) use illegal performance enhancers. I personally have no issue with it. It's available to everyone, and I like to see outward limits of the human body pushed further and further, whether that be by chemical means or not.

Were I in the shoes of Barry Bonds, I'd probably have the same attitude. The ignorant masses created a witch hunt, and more than likely when approached and harassed by the media I'd be the most arrogant SOB imagineable just for shock value. He's played a part in digging his own hole, but the ground was originally broken by the media who is, as you well know, out to save the world.

It's not even remotely alike because police officers aren't your idols. Fact: Steroid use is a victimless crime. Your children aren't going to grow up and be steroid junkies because Barry Bonds broke Hank Aarons record while on them. You're right, POs aren't making $15 million dollars, neither are any of the amateur athletes using steroids, nor are countless sick people prescribed them to treat muscle-wasting diseases. Your choice to single out a professional athlete for steroid use based solely on record breaking has me perplexed, to say the least. Surely it can't be from an unfair advantage standpoint, in order for you to take that road, equal conditions would have to be met for both Bonds and Aaron, including but not limited to quality of pitchers, field length, and even bats used.

I didn't "characterize all baseball fans." I categorized most as sheeple, which is exactly what they are.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gringo

Fact: Steroid use is a victimless crime. Your children aren't going to grow up and be steroid junkies because Barry Bonds broke Hank Aarons record while on them.

wow...and you're calling others ignorant?!?!?! that's probably the ignorant quote of the year!
 
it tells kids that it's ok to use them. drugs is drugs, the juice, clear, etc. are drugs and they have side effects and they have victims...the user, abuser and loved ones around them are all victims. get your so called 'facts' straight before you give out false 'facts'.

steriod use is anything but a "victimless crime" kids look up to professional athletes, and if we say its ok that he did them, then they will think its ok if they do.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gringo

Then you truely are a sports purist ffingers, none of my statements were aimed at you in particular. I'm merely speaking from a standpoint that people should not be shocked to find out that top level athletes (yes, that even means the olympics) use illegal performance enhancers. I personally have no issue with it. It's available to everyone, and I like to see outward limits of the human body pushed further and further, whether that be by chemical means or not.

Were I in the shoes of Barry Bonds, I'd probably have the same attitude. The ignorant masses created a witch hunt, and more than likely when approached and harassed by the media I'd be the most arrogant SOB imagineable just for shock value. He's played a part in digging his own hole, but the ground was originally broken by the media who is, as you well know, out to save the world.

It's not even remotely alike because police officers aren't your idols. Fact: Steroid use is a victimless crime. Your children aren't going to grow up and be steroid junkies because Barry Bonds broke Hank Aarons record while on them. You're right, POs aren't making $15 million dollars, neither are any of the amateur athletes using steroids, nor are countless sick people prescribed them to treat muscle-wasting diseases. Your choice to single out a professional athlete for steroid use based solely on record breaking has me perplexed, to say the least. Surely it can't be from an unfair advantage standpoint, in order for you to take that road, equal conditions would have to be met for both Bonds and Aaron, including but not limited to quality of pitchers, field length, and even bats used.

I didn't "characterize all baseball fans." I categorized most as sheeple, which is exactly what they are.

well thank you for the nice compliment, and although i falter at times, ha, i try to remain a purist when it comes to sports....

as for the witchhunt....i dunno....it started i believe with them wanting to clean things up....i think the most obvious guilty players, rather than trying to figure out a way to clean up the mess in a dignified manner, they denied it....hard....i would too, i don't blame them for that....but as more and more probing happened...players started realizing, it's better to just give it up, admit it and move on....bonds, rather than stay out of the argument or admit it (i can understand staying out of it) decides to ridicule the masses for what everyone obviously knows is true...i feel pissed that he thinks i'm that stupid (no i don't really take it that personal, just sayin)....i think it is horrible he lied in court....i think it's even worse he wants people to believe he did this with any type of "edge".....

as for me getting on athletes about use....it's more of an issue to me because, maybe once again, i am a purist (and i played sports for many years, even had a partial scholarship offered), that athletes shouldn't use.....it goes beyond our capabilities.....fine....if that is the way it is and everyone uses, ok....then eveyone admit it and move on....but that isn't whats happening...you have people denying it and playing dumb....and what if 50% are and 50% aren't....that advantage the 50% have is completely unfair.....whether it is common practice or not doesn't make it fair....

if you want to accept the use...that's ok....but everyone should.....and as for records...if we are accepting this, have another record book....a juiced record book because human capabilities are pushed beyond and it's not fair to compare (i know this is ridiculous, just for illustrative purposes)....and i know things have changed over the years....but natural ability will progress greater over time.....and the leap bonds took with the use isn't fair to remove Hank's record....

and i don't condemn those who need the drugs....don't confuse that...but i also don't condone those that use for no other reaso

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hayden06F4i

steriod use is anything but a "victimless crime" kids look up to professional athletes, and if we say its ok that he did them, then they will think its ok if they do.

 
+1...we live in a society where kids worship people who could drive a baseball 500 ft. or dunk a basketball with 3 guys in his face...these athletes have TREMENDOUS influence over young people.  take Vick for example...pro bowl QB...had everything going for him...****ed up and gets his endorsements pulled...why?  because those companies understand that he isnt a positive role model anymore thus they dont want his face plastered all over their product.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tahoe SC

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gringo

Fact: Steroid use is a victimless crime. Your children aren't going to grow up and be steroid junkies because Barry Bonds broke Hank Aarons record while on them.

wow...and you're calling others ignorant?!?!?! that's probably the ignorant quote of the year!

it tells kids that it's ok to use them. drugs is drugs, the juice, clear, etc. are drugs and they have side effects and they have victims...the user, abuser and loved ones around them are all victims. get your so called 'facts' straight before you give out false 'facts'.

Yes I am calling others ignorant. Don't speak on matters of which you have no background or intelligence of. The fact is you ARE ignorant, it's not an insult, and until you can prove otherwise you will remain so in my mind, as well as in the mind of other educated people in this field.

Since you claim to be such an educated person Tahoe SC, you should have zero problem backing up what you just said. Tell me how steroids are bad, tell me the harmful side effects, and when you're done telling me all that, I want to see a scientific study proving it. See all you do is regurgitate the bullshit that CNN and other news networks spoon feed you, and if you had more than two working brain cells in that little dome piece of yours one might think you were intelligent to not believe everything you hear and do some research for yourself.

You're right though, kids do look up to their favorite athletes, and others they see on TV. The difference between kids following directly in the foot steps of a bad influence vs a good one is the difference between good parenting and bad parenting. If your kids choose to use steroids because Barry Bonds does, it's not his fault, it's your fault for sucking as a parent. How about some personal accountability for a change? It's always someone elses fault, isn't it?

Education is the best tool in preventing these instances, the fact that you refuse to acknowledge that there is an education factor to this further exemplifies your stupidity. It is of likeness to preaching abstinence in school. Rather than teaching kids the safe way to have sex along with  the possible consequences, why not just teach them "Sex is bad, don't do it until you're married." We all know how well that one works.

quote:

ORIGINAL: catamayo85

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hayden06F4i

steriod use is anything but a "victimless crime" kids look up to professional athletes, and if we say its ok that he did them, then they will think its ok if they do.

+1...we live in a society where kids worship people who could drive a baseball 500 ft. or dunk a basketball with 3 guys in his face...these athletes have TREMENDOUS influence over young people.  take Vick for example...pro bowl QB...had everything going for him...****ed up and gets his endorsements pulled...why?  because those companies understand that he isnt a positive role model anymore thus they dont want his face plastered all over their product.

Eh not so fast. They didn't pull his endorsements because he isn't a positive role model, they pulled his endorsements because keeping Vick on board would hurt their image. Contrary to what you might think, companies aren't out to employ positive role models, their out to make money.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ffingers
well thank you for the nice compliment, and although i falter at times, ha, i try to remain a purist when it comes to sports....

as for the witchhunt....i dunno....it started i believe with them wanting to clean things up....i think the most obvious guilty players, rather than trying to figure out a way to clean up the mess in a dignified manner, they denied it....hard....i would too, i don't blame them for that....but as more and more probing happened...players started realizing, it's better to just give it up, admit it and move on....bonds, rather than stay out of the argument or admit it (i can understand staying out of it) decides to ridicule the masses for what everyone obviously knows is true...i feel pissed that he thinks i'm that stupid (no i don't really take it that personal, just sayin)....i think it is horrible he lied in court....i think it's even worse he wants people to believe he did this with any type of "edge".....

as for me getting on athletes about use....it's more of an issue to me because, maybe once again, i am a purist (and i played sports for many years, even had a partial scholarship offered), that athletes shouldn't use.....it goes beyond our capabilities.....fine....if that is the way it is and everyone uses, ok....then eveyone admit it and move on....but that isn't whats happening...you have people denying it and playing dumb....and what if 50% are and 50% aren't....that advantage the 50% have is completely unfair.....whether it is common practice or not doesn't make it fair....

if you want to accept the use...that's ok....but everyone should.....and as for records...if we are accepting this, have another record book....a juiced record book because human capabilities are pushed beyond and it's not fair to compare (i know this is ridiculous, just for illustrative purposes)....and i know things have changed over the years....but natural ability will progress greater over time.....and the leap bonds took with the use isn't fair to remove Hank's record....

and i don't condemn those who need the drugs....don't confuse that...but i also don't condone those that use for no other reason than because (it is unhealthy for you....that's been proven time and time again) or for an unfair advantage (which if you ask people who use, it's not to "stay competitive", it's to "gain an advantage") right there motive is wrong.....

and to some degree you are right that they aren't my heroes....but you are also wrong to another degree....kids will idolize whomever they choose, if you want them to or not and you can try and lead them in the right direction, but it is ultimately their decision....i don't want my kids (in the future) to look to someone like bonds and be impressed because he stands for everything that is wrong in sports in general....he doesn't owe us anything...i can appreciate at that...but he has to appreciate the fact that he is where he is because of the fans who buy the products and come to the games....we make the money for the clubs to pay out like that....so at least recognize that and act with a little respect and understand that whether he likes it or not, people will look up to him and he has a moral duty to not act like an ass-hat.....

that's just my opinion...as naive as it may be, this is what i fell...anywho....good discussion gringo though...

oh and i agree with the sheeples comment...i try to stay out of that group....but sometimes...well.....places like this, good opportunity to stray...

We can both agree on the fact that if a professional player uses, then they should own up to that fact. Claiming to be something you are not (a great natural athlete, in this case) is beyond dishonest, it's just wrong. The morals involved in steroid use is something you and I will most likely never agree on, but I do concur that it should not be hidden. It has too much of an effect on g

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gringo

quote:

ORIGINAL: catamayo85

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hayden06F4i

steriod use is anything but a "victimless crime" kids look up to professional athletes, and if we say its ok that he did them, then they will think its ok if they do.

+1...we live in a society where kids worship people who could drive a baseball 500 ft. or dunk a basketball with 3 guys in his face...these athletes have TREMENDOUS influence over young people.  take Vick for example...pro bowl QB...had everything going for him...****ed up and gets his endorsements pulled...why?  because those companies understand that he isnt a positive role model anymore thus they dont want his face plastered all over their product.

Eh not so fast. They didn't pull his endorsements because he isn't a positive role model, they pulled his endorsements because keeping Vick on board would hurt their image. Contrary to what you might think, companies aren't out to employ positive role models, their out to make money.

 
you dont think positive role models=more money?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gringo


Yes I am calling others ignorant. Don't speak on matters of which you have no background or intelligence of. The fact is you ARE ignorant, it's not an insult, and until you can prove otherwise you will remain so in my mind, as well as in the mind of other educated people in this field.

Since you claim to be such an educated person Tahoe SC, you should have zero problem backing up what you just said. Tell me how steroids are bad, tell me the harmful side effects, and when you're done telling me all that, I want to see a scientific study proving it. See all you do is regurgitate the bullshit that CNN and other news networks spoon feed you, and if you had more than two working brain cells in that little dome piece of yours one might think you were intelligent to not believe everything you hear and do some research for yourself.

You're right though, kids do look up to their favorite athletes, and others they see on TV. The difference between kids following directly in the foot steps of a bad influence vs a good one is the difference between good parenting and bad parenting. If your kids choose to use steroids because Barry Bonds does, it's not his fault, it's your fault for sucking as a parent. How about some personal accountability for a change? It's always someone elses fault, isn't it?

Education is the best tool in preventing these instances, the fact that you refuse to acknowledge that there is an education factor to this further exemplifies your stupidity. It is of likeness to preaching abstinence in school. Rather than teaching kids the safe way to have sex along with  the possible consequences, why not just teach them "Sex is bad, don't do it until you're married." We all know how well that one works.

 
muhahahahaha...calm down roid boy...keep name calling and flaming on. you have no clue of my eduational background...and for you to assume makes you ignorant.
 
fact...i've studied the use of steroids very intensely in college, as pre-med, an athlete, bodybuilder and health enthusiast. i understand the use and effects of them...much more than assume. i dont' get my so called bull crap from CNN, etc...it's all based off of personal experience, medical journals, and underground handbooks/reference guides...you know which ones i'm talking about.
 
when used in proper dosages under medical supervision, great...but most do not...now if you are a proponent of steroid use and you've never heard of the side effects...then you aren't as educated as you claim to be, or you're simply do not want to believe. then again it's only the internet...
 
thank you for all the name calling, arrogance, ignorance and angry tone...i've been there too...anger gets you through things...but in the end...when you get upset...you only hurt yourself...the person who pissed you off doesn't feel a thing.
 
obviously you aren't a parent...so will not comment on the sucky parent remark when kids look up to role models, etc.
 
better lay off the juice...because it's even showing on the internet...and if you aren't on it...you just have a bad attitude!
 
and about kids having sex...well...aside from education, there are moral issues and spiritual issues involved...and it gets very deep...and it's another topic!
 
 

Tahoe SC      1
Gringo           0

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hayden06F4i

Tahoe SC      1
Gringo           0

 
what are you trying to do mang?
 
Angels >>>> Sox....muhahahhahahahhahh

....i was keeping score of you and gringo it was getting heated.

yes the angels took the sox 2 out of 3. seriously though, i really like the Angels team, young, talented, i love how they play the game with lots of steals, and double steals, trying first to third often on a base hit, i like chone figgins, o-cab, vlad and company, very good young team. not to mention lackey, krod etc etc.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tahoe SC
muhahahahaha...calm down roid boy...keep name calling and flaming on. you have no clue of my eduational background...and for you to assume makes you ignorant.

fact...i've studied the use of steroids very intensely in college, as pre-med, an athlete, bodybuilder and health enthusiast. i understand the use and effects of them...much more than assume. i dont' get my so called bull crap from CNN, etc...it's all based off of personal experience, medical journals, and underground handbooks/reference guides...you know which ones i'm talking about.

when used in proper dosages under medical supervision, great...but most do not...now if you are a proponent of steroid use and you've never heard of the side effects...then you aren't as educated as you claim to be, or you're simply do not want to believe. then again it's only the internet...

thank you for all the name calling, arrogance, ignorance and angry tone...i've been there too...anger gets you through things...but in the end...when you get upset...you only hurt yourself...the person who pissed you off doesn't feel a thing.

obviously you aren't a parent...so will not comment on the sucky parent remark when kids look up to role models, etc.

better lay off the juice...because it's even showing on the internet...and if you aren't on it...you just have a bad attitude!

and about kids having sex...well...aside from education, there are moral issues and spiritual issues involved...and it gets very deep...and it's another topic!

I wasn't assuming, I was going off of everything you had posted in this thread up until this point, which basically amounted to idiotic comments, and a picture of a testicle.

I know full well of potential side effects, and mitigation of said effects. I'm fairly certain that the conditions under which Barry Bonds and other professional athletes use steroids is a controlled environment, how can it not be? I'm sure with the amount of effort they need to put into not getting caught with regards to dosages, timing, and which esters of which hormones to use they probably know a good bit about what they are doing, or at least the one administering steroids to them does. Their career depends on it. It's made out like the only difference between a professional athlete using steroids and the crackhead sleeping under a bridge is money, which both you and I know is not true.

Don't worry about me being upset, I'm enjoying myself, I find this interesting. If you want a topic that will upset me and cause me to fight to the death about, try religion or politics. Baseball just isn't it, sorry pal.

Spiritual and Moral issues aside, I consider them very similar. I'll give a more closely related example: the DARE program was a failure, why? It taught kids that drugs are bad, and that is only one side of the coin. If they had taught kids the negative effects of drugs, along with certain personality traits that lead to drug use, and what to do in the event of usage of certain drugs, I guarantee there would not be as many deaths from overdosing. Scare tactics don't work.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hayden06F4i

Tahoe SC      1
Gringo           0

It's a damn shame we don't have a nut-swinging smiley.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gringo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hayden06F4i

Tahoe SC      1
Gringo           0

It's a damn shame we don't have a nut-swinging smiley.

after 2 innings

Tahoe SC          1
Gringo               1


better? in all seriousness i do see valid points on both sides your making. am i against steriods? 100% yes.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tahoe SC

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hayden06F4i

Tahoe SC      1
Gringo           0

what are you trying to do mang?

Angels >>>> Sox....muhahahhahahahhahh

YANKEES >>>>Angels/Bo Sux/pretty much everyone else in baseball

I want pro athletes to use more steroids, that way they can play harder, recover faster, and entertain me better.  I am also pro drug use for all musicians...makes 'em more creative which also entertains me better.

thats true if we lived in a world were everyone was on drugs we'd all be better.....how about all salespeople high on pot? nice and laid back, no pressure......

yes i post idiotic things...that's why they made me mod.
 
hayden it's no fun to argue if you keep on agreeing with me...
 
gringo...i agree that pro athletes are under supervision so side effects would be minimal...this isn't the case for WWE guys and UFC guys though...as well as bodybuilders, etc...and those are the ones you always hear about on CNN, etc.
 
DARE failed because of them lousy wanabe pimped out cars they drove...i mean a slammed minivan with chrome? what were they smoking? ;-)
 
no i don't discuss religion online because someone will say scientifically this and that and then someone else will say but it has to do with faith, etc...and then it goes in a circle...politics...just sucks peroid!
 
as for the whole steroid debate...it will be interesting to see who else comes out and what comes of it...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hayden06F4i

Tahoe SC 1
Gringo 0

Tachoe

Gringo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gringo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hayden06F4i

Tahoe SC      1
Gringo           0

It's a damn shame we don't have a nut-swinging smiley.

It's a damn shame we don't have an ass-hat smiley.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wildcat

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gringo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hayden06F4i

Tahoe SC      1
Gringo           0

It's a damn shame we don't have a nut-swinging smiley.

It's a damn shame we don't have an ass-hat smiley.

If you'd like to take a snapshot of yourself and resize it, I'm sure the mods could accommodate you.

You all sound like a bunch of haters? Nobody said a word when Mark "Thick Leather Neck" McGuire was swatting homers and making records. For the record it is possible to get big without steroids it's called a gym!  But truth be told baseball is for wimps, it's for the kids who's mommys would not let them play football. Baseball is the most boring thing in the world to watch, I rather watch chinese table tennis!