Carbon Fiber?

Anyone else hear that apparently there is an internatioanl shortage in carbon fiber material and its out of stock everywhere?!?

know any good suppliers that may have some in stock?

i am also looking for any info anyone can give me as to actually doing this myself.  anyone done it before?

also, what do you guys think about this site, depending on pricing i think it may be worth it.

http://www.emachineshop.com/indexg.htm?gclid=CMDlrOXUgYoCFQlQWAodukvqQw

http://cgi.ebay.com/Carbon-Fiber-Fabric-3K-Plain-Weave-Standard-Mod-cloth_W0QQitemZ270082385598QQihZ017QQcategoryZ1267QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem
 
It partially hype. I buy all mine off ebay, around $32.00 yd is average for 5.7 oz 2x2 twill, I have also seen many companies that still sell it. Look for private sellers for smaller pieces for small projects. I have done some projects with cf and may be of some help if you need it. What are you gonna be doing?

i am going to do a few things.  i want to make a gauge cluster cover, triple tree cover, and then i want to add an overlay to the upper panels on the inside of the fronts.  they sell them for the F4i like this(LINK).  i am also going to be building an undertail out of fiberglass once i finish swapping out my tail.  thanks for the link.

so with CF its the same as fiberglass as far as the resin then hardener goes?

I wish I knew how to do this sort of stuff. I need someone to show me. I'd love to make some air duct covers for my 929. That would look sweet. Good luck Rrasco, keep us updated.

for the most part it is, sometimes you can cut it, then place a wooden mold around to (like if it were square, triple tree clamp would be harder to do) and then that gives you the raised up effect of the resin too. But, yea for the most part, cut it, fit it, then cure it with the resin and hardener.

for the gauges and triple tree i was planning on making a flat piece, then have a pattern that matches them, then use a dremel to cut out the holes.  same goes for shaping of the triple tree.  now the inner panels i am thinking of just laying it on top of the pieces.  either that or i will take a mold.

There are several different types of resin. Resin that you buy for fiberglass has a yellowish tint. Fiberglass is usually painted so this is fine for that. For cf you want a crystal clear coat, Maxclear is one type of resin that works well for cf. It is a surf board epoxy. The resins are VERY dangerous to work with. Make sure you have proper protection, goggles, respirator, and gloves. Stay away from vinyl gloves as I have found that epoxy will eat right through them. Some epoxy hardeners will call IMMEDIATE blindless if you get it in yourr eyes and there is nothing to reverse it!!
For overlays the resin will not stick to smooth plastics in general, they will stick to wood and you wont be able to get it off. Working with molds is very hard and in order to do it correct it requires "vacuum bagging" and more compounds such as mold release agents and waxes. I have found also that epoxy will not stick to clear shipping tape.

For your triple tree cover you could cover the TT in shipping tape then lay the impregnated cf onto it, let it dry then cut it out, do a second layer then trim. Or make a cardboard template, cover it with the tape then overlay the cf onto that. Cf should only be cut at 90* angles, it frays very easily. And always cut your piece larger then your template by a few inches in each direction.

yeah, i am going to make sure i get a respirator, goggles, and gloves.  can i not use the clear resin for the fiberglass as well?  i would prefer to only buy 1 type of resin at $35/pt.  although my dad is a wholesale mgr at napa, so i should get a good deal on some materials.

any recommendations for the plastic pieces then?

Ya, thats what I used on mine. I just used regular clear resin on mine and it worked out fine. 

Yes you can "generally" use same resins on both. Heres a link to mxclear on ebay. I think they have the rations for how much you need too, it doesnt take much resin.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Epoxy-Resin-Fiberglass-Impregnating-Laminating-24-oz_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ26451QQihZ017QQitemZ270082471877QQrdZ1
 
 
Plastics are easily overlayed then peeled off, then they will have to be reattached via glue or spray adhesives. I have done some work with the fiberglass resins, the yellowish tint is not that bad if you dont overdo the surface epoxy or when only used for impregnating.

so you are saying to use the plastic as a mold basically, then remove it and glue it back together?

do you know of any place that I could send my pieces and they would cover them for me?

how much epoxy does that amount out to be?  i see the physical amount, but would that be enough resin and hardener to do what i need it for?

and what is impregnating?

8oz fabric = 4.5 oz of resin. MaxClr is 24oz so it would do 42.66 oz of fabric. All fabrics are different weight, you will generally use 5.7-6.0oz per yd fabric. A yard is generally 42-50" wide by 36" long. So with 24oz of resin you should be able to do 7 yds of 6oz fabric(21ft X 42-50"). Keep in mind depending on the purpose of the desired piece, you may need 2-3 layers of CF. So you would probably see 2-3 yds of finished product with 24oz of resin. Ive learned its kind of an art to determine how much resin you will need and with the fiberglass resin, how much hardener  to add depending on temp. The Max Clr is mixed the same all the time no variations for temp. ( I believe).
 
As for sending them out, yes I have seen a guy who does that but be prepared to drop a pretty penny on it $$$$$$.

so for an application like this which is solely cosmetic and will have no structural support relying on the CF, I realize it may be necessary to add a second or third layer of resin on top for depth, but would I need to use more than 1 layer of CF?

just so its clear, i have tried to do as much reading as i could for this, so i have a basic understanding of what needs to be done.  just wanted to clarify specifics since its hard to pull them from non-specific how-tos.

thanks for the help btw.

Impregnating is saturating the carbon fiber before you apply it to the mold/piece. You lay the piece out and sgueegy the resin all over it removing the excess and any air bubbles(bad).

1 layer of cf is flimsy. 2 for cosmetic and 3+ for structural.  I would use cf for all layers, for more bracing strength, kevlar is used in combination or carbon kevlar.

I used 3 for door panel trim and 4 for the center. I applyed it on the actual dash pieces though. Yours may be a little hard since its on tt and what not. 

jeez, so that is why it gets so expensive. hopefully i can get a good deal on the resin.

so 2 layers it is.  are you supposed to allow it to cure before adding the second layer? if so, is there any wet sanding or cleaning off the blush between layers?

You are gonna just have to experiment rrasco. This stuff is fun to do but extremely messy, stinky, and frustrating at times. You will see what I mean. Let the layers cure only takes bout an hour. I buy cf on ebay from people who steal it from work, so you can find some cheaper deals now and then, helpful for practice. And you dont really need to waste that much on practice, 4x8" piece and a few drops of resin. Oh yea I hope you like to sand too.

Are you talking the triangle side panels on an rr??
First layer on mine, note the tiny bumps that now must be sanded then covered with the econd layer
 


Thumbnail Image

I let mine cure just because I didnt know how strong it would be after each layer. After the first layer cured, up a second piece on, smoothed it out, and a took a small brush to the sides and hit it with a little resin also, just to make sure it would hole. I only wetsanded the edges to get it smooth when I was done. I never did anything in between.... thats just me though

those are not the pieces i had originally intended to do, but i had thought of that earlier, didnt know how it would come out on a red bike.  im talking about these...im not even 100% sure I am going to do them, but it looks good on some of the F4s I have seen them on.

i also realize this is not going to be easy and will take a bit of practice to get the technique down, but i always like to find out everything i possible can prior to attempting anything.  thanks for all the help though, im sure i will have more ?s once i start.


Thumbnail Image

Yeah, just be sure to where heavy duty dipped gloves, other wise your fingers might get stuck together 

lol, you dont even want to know how many times i have super glued my fingers together.....but ill try not to, thats a horrible feeling.

I had some people on here who wanted me to do those for the f4. I didnt have the pieces so I couldnt do them. They should be pretty easy to do. Just hit me up with any more q's, I am not claiming to be an expert but I know more than the average joe.

thanks, there has not been much response anytime i have asked about fiberglassing or CF

i know they already sell those pieces at places like oppracing.com for the F4.  i would just buy them, however they dont make anything for the F1.  thanks again.

Make sure and offset the weave 45 degrees for more strength between layers as well. I usually use prepreg (preimpregnated with resin) and vacuum bag it. With prepreg you just lay it up in the waxed mold, put it a vacuum bag, suck all the air out and throw it either in an oven or autoclave(adds nitrogen and ups the pressure to push all the airbubbles out.). The big wait time is overnight while it cures.
However when doing it wet style (seperate cloth and resin, sucks compared to pre-preg), you definately need a squegee and a lot of spare time. Also lay up both layers at once and make sure and soak/squegee the first layer before adding the second. Repeat the soak/squegee process and then if you have a big enough oven cook it at 200-250 farenheit overnight. It will increase the strength exponentially.
 
Rrasco I haven't seen your other questions on cf or fiberglass but I can help ya if you want. Definately get a niosh certified respirator and some good nitrile gloves. You don't need a apron, just some crappy thicker clothes & shoes you don't care about. Also if you want it to cure faster have your work area heated and mix the ratio hotter. Might want to wait on that however since you need some experience before going nuts on it. If you want it slower mix colder and do it in a cool garage. However don't lay it up under 65 degrees, the resin gets wierd. If you don't have a oven or space heater in the garage, you can cook it by setting it on top of your clothes dryer, but its very uneven and can drive you nuts turning the dryer on every hour or two. Use a hair dryer if your really in a bind
 
Molds are the way to go but Bushmaster is right, they bring a whole new level of butt-pain.
 
I'm working on making molds for the F1, cuz I'm sick of the plastic, but I need to just do it(started, but I stopped after my son was born) . Anybody else be interested in F1 carbon fiber body panels? and how much do you think I should charge? I still need to see what it will cost me in parts, but hey any thoughts are welcome.