CBR1000RR Turbo OR Big-Bore?

Hello, all likeminded crazy bikers.

I have the money in the my pocket and it’s burning a holeJ
I’m deciding between engine work and turbo for my CBR1000RR.
I will use it on the road 90% (weekly ride to work and canyon carving), and on the track 10% (weekend track for fun, not for racing).

Modification up to date; Full exhaust, PCIII, Carbon air-box, 520 conversion, HRC PGM.

APE Racing will charge about $4800 for this engine mod.
Engine work will include:
APE Racing will perform the work,
Weber Cams for overall performance increase,
Adjustable Cam sprockets,
JE Big-bore pistons13: 1,
Lightened crank shaft,
Ported and polished head,
Valves and springs,
Carrillo rods,
This should give me an estimated 185-190 SAE rear wheel HP.

Turbo kits range from $3500 to Fast Forward’s $6000 and the HP are 170 to 250 it seems.

I have no previous experience with 1000cc turbo bikes, but a lot of experience with modified bikes 185-200HP.
I’m going to have an aftermarket muffler on the bike.


Now to the questions!
1) What should I go with (if you have personal experience, excellent!! Just let me know what)?
2) On what set up will I run in to more engine service?
3) Will the control/handling of the bike be the same on Turbo or Engine modification (when they are at the same HP)?
3) How will the power band differ?
4) Where can I find the “best” Turbo kit with the least lag?

Thank you very much for your help!
Robert

P.S. If you would like to contact me privately or have products to sell: rarthen@yahoo.com .

Turbo lag on a bike is due to mismatched turbo and bike. My busa had no lag and started pulling like crazy in 6th at 3500 rpms -- at 6000 rpms in 6th a quick flick of the throttle would damn near throw you off. It was running 12# with 300hp at the wheel. The upside to a turbo is readily available power whenever and no bottles to fill (NOS). But the downside is a lot of tinkering. Also bolting on 20-30 lbs of stuff directly behind your front wheel is gonna affect your handling negatively. On a busa it doesn't really matter that much because, honestly, it handles like a pig compared to the 1000RR. Don't get me wrong -- I could still out maneuver almost any car out there but the liter bikes walked me bad in the twisties. Of course on the straights or in big sweepers I ate their lunch

So to answer the questions:

1) only you can decide that. My personal belief is that everyone that loves sportbikes should ride at least one turbo'd bike at least once in their life -- the experience is unbelievable.
2) turbo will require more service because you have a lot of hoses and check valves that must operate 100% correctly 100% of the time or your engine could go BOOM.
3) with the APE modded engine you can expect more power than you have now everywhere in the band -- plus an added kick in the pants at the traditional rpms. Turbo will ride like a normal bike unless you twist the throttle -- at anything over 3500rpms it starts getting exciting.
4) I don't have personal experience with turboing the 1000RR so I can't recommend anyone -- however I posted a link for a supercharger kit from a reputable company in CA. Supercharged power curve is very similar to a turbo.

Here it is> and here's their site BOO-YAAA

quote:

ORIGINAL: chainstretcher

Turbo lag on a bike is due to mismatched turbo and bike. My busa had no lag and started pulling like crazy in 6th at 3500 rpms -- at 6000 rpms in 6th a quick flick of the throttle would damn near throw you off. It was running 12# with 300hp at the wheel. The upside to a turbo is readily available power whenever and no bottles to fill (NOS). But the downside is a lot of tinkering. Also bolting on 20-30 lbs of stuff directly behind your front wheel is gonna affect your handling negatively. On a busa it doesn't really matter that much because, honestly, it handles like a pig compared to the 1000RR. Don't get me wrong -- I could still out maneuver almost any car out there but the liter bikes walked me bad in the twisties. Of course on the straights or in big sweepers I ate their lunch

So to answer the questions:

1) only you can decide that. My personal belief is that everyone that loves sportbikes should ride at least one turbo'd bike at least once in their life -- the experience is unbelievable.
2) turbo will require more service because you have a lot of hoses and check valves that must operate 100% correctly 100% of the time or your engine could go BOOM.
3) with the APE modded engine you can expect more power than you have now everywhere in the band -- plus an added kick in the pants at the traditional rpms. Turbo will ride like a normal bike unless you twist the throttle -- at anything over 3500rpms it starts getting exciting.
4) I don't have personal experience with turboing the 1000RR so I can't recommend anyone -- however I posted a link for a supercharger kit from a reputable company in CA. Supercharged power curve is very similar to a turbo.

Excellent reply Chainstretcher! I would like to se more intelligent replies like that.
Thank you,
R

oh my god! the owner just bought my 05 gsxr1000! 6 degrees of separation eh?

quote:

ORIGINAL: chainstretcher

Here it is> and here's their site BOO-YAAA

i think chainstretcher is probably the most informed person that you will find on this site when it comes to turbo on bikes. you might want to check out or hit up metalscorpio. he has alot of internal engine mods and he may be able to clear up some questions in that department.

but here are my responses/opinions to your questions.
1) i would go engine mods over turbo. don't know why but it always seemed more impressive to me to see any vehicle with a built motor instead of a bolt-on item.
2) i would think that the turbo would require more maintenence. higher temps and all. and if the engine build up is done right, and everything is compatible and matched for the job at hand, i wouldn't think that the maintenence or reliability should be much more of an issue than with a stock engine.
3) no. the turbo system and hoses add weight (as explained by chainstretcher) and the engine modifications would not add any weight so no effect on handling or stability.
3) if you want it to. you could build the engine to suit your style of riding. if you want gobs of power in the upper rpm's then it can be done. if you want low to mid range, you could have it built for that. the turbo is more for top end.
4) no clue. never searched for turbo systems but the links above seem to be pretty good.

these are all my personal very biased opinions. i have no clue what would be best and i would never claim that i did. i ride a stock bike. and one more point to consider: go back to school and re-learn how to count. you asked 5 questions and used the number 3 twice!

Doh --- I didn't even notice the two #3's --- I'm a silly goose

I Just like the number I guess.
I think this forum has the best responses so far of any forum and is keeping the stupid remarks to a minimum like "go back to school".
Thanks again for your help.
R

I think that remark was made in good humor I find it amusing to laugh at my mistakes -- and even more amusing to laugh at other peeps mistakes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stillalive

I Just like the number I guess.
I think this forum has the best responses so far of any forum and is keeping the stupid remarks to a minimum like "go back to school".
Thanks again for your help.
R

sorry for any offense taken by my poor attempt at humor. sarcasm doesn't transfer well when typing.

Just My op but i`d go for engine mods not turbo, usable throughout the whole rev range then.

Why must we blow smoke up chainstretchers a**?

quote:

ORIGINAL: FordFrenzy97

Why must we blow smoke up chainstretchers a**?

My a$$ is exit only -- not even smoke is allowed. I appreciate your cooperation in this matter

quote:

ORIGINAL: FordFrenzy97

Why must we blow smoke up chainstretchers a**?

WTF?

exit not, entrance, we get it....

quote:

ORIGINAL: chainstretcher

quote:

ORIGINAL: FordFrenzy97

Why must we blow smoke up chainstretchers a**?

My a$$ is exit only -- not even smoke is allowed. I appreciate your cooperation in this matter

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anubis

quote:

ORIGINAL: FordFrenzy97

Why must we blow smoke up chainstretchers a**?

WTF?

I must've pissed in his cornflakes I just love all the colorful metaphors .........

CHECK OUT FORCEDAIRSYSTEMSTECHNOLOGY.COM THIS IS THE COMPANY DOING MY TURBO KIT. 225HP AT THE WHEEL. ONLY ADDING 7LBS OF EXTRA WEIGHT TO BIKE. SHOULD HAVE NO LAG OR VERY LITTLE. WE LET YOU KNOW MORE WHEN I GET MY BIKE BACK. GLENN

7 lbs ???? That's an awfully light turbo dude. Mine weighed in at a smidge under 35 lbs. Add water injection and the total was about 40 lbs and made 13# of boost.

THE WHOLE KIT WAYS AROUND 35LBS, BUT AFTER YOU TAKE THINGS OUT TO MAKE ROOM FOR NEW THINGS IT COME TO A SEVEN POUND DIFFERENCE. THE TURBO IS A GARRETT GT28.

Ill take a built motor, with between 205 and 210 hp anyday...

The big bore, even the J&E one has some problems, liners get pretty damn thin...

Web Cams, a good head, J&E pistons, blueprint the whole thing, there you go.

Hate to say it though, but you woudl be WAY beter of in spending the money on a shock, doing the forks, and putting on a set of forged Mag wheels. not only do you get the power increase from the lessened rotating mass, but you get the improvement in turnign and stopping as well.

just my .02

Do the engine mod first, then later on if it's still not enough throw the turbo on

Hello all,

I still haven’t decided on turbo or Engine mod.
I have now installed Ohlins rear damper, HRC linkage, front revalved forks, BST rims.
The problem I have deciding is that some people say that a turbo will make more damage to the engine than severe engine mods and wise versa.

What I have found out so far is.
Ti valves are no good for long service intervals even with beryllium seats.
JE piston rings dose not last as long as OEM.
Carrillo rods or similar is needed for both mods.
APE suggested JE over bore and dry nitrous.

I will port the head anyway, lighten the crank, valve springs and intake valves and Carrillo rods regardless of what mod I’ll make.

Thanks for all the answers.