Does bike weight matter that much?

According to honda site:
F4i dry weight - 370 lbs
1000RR dry weight - 388 lbs
 
Everybody says that liter bikes are much heavier, but 18 lbs difference is nothing. For example the difference between full and empty tank is 40 lbs. Do you feel the difference? I don't.
 
So, does it really feels THAT heavier as they say? Or riding f4i with full/empty tank is pretty much the same difference as riding f4i/liter bike?

I sat on the R1 and compare to the R6 and the 600RR, I feel that the R1 is much lighter, skinner/thinner/trimmer too. 
 
Haven't dropped it (R1) to tell the difference from trying to lift it back up though.
 
The 600RR is dang heavy! :)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kikn
The 600RR is dang heavy! :)

 
Mine feels light and flicks side to side easily.

Just sitting on the bike isn't going to tell you anything. The weight affects momentum, and the weight difference will be more apparent at speed. Also, however, the weight in relation to center of gravity and centralization of components, as well as rake/trail effects of steering stability/lightness also combining with weight will affect the character of riding the bike. When you compare your F4i on an empty tank to a full tank, you are comparing a bike with the exact same distribution of mass and steering geometry (the same bike). So all other factors being equal, the weight in isolation will not make much of a difference. But when you have 2 bikes with different distributions of mass and qualities in steering, a difference in weight can factor in with other differences between the bikes to provide a significant difference in maneuverability.

Now in my personal experience, I have not ridden enough bikes to be able to tell you. However, most people who have ridden, for example, both literbikes and middleweights, (particularly those of the same brand utilizing similar design principles) will tell you that the middlewights are in general easier to 'throw around'. I have also heard insightful comment, though, that the middleweights are not SO much easier to turn than literbikes, else AMA racers would take middleweights into 1000cc class races and win. So from what I have read on forums and the like, the lighter 600cc bikes are more flickable, but not incredibly so, than the heavier 1000cc bikes.

As an F4i rider, I would say that though your bike is heavier than the 600RR, if you could mod your bike up to where the engine can give you the hp of a 600RR and a nice power band, you could still perform well in a race against an RR even though you are a little heavier. That is if you do not factor in differences in rider skill, which is apparently the biggest factor in racing.

As a general bike buyer, I would say that if max maneuverability is your goal, you will want to go with a 600, but if you want the speed of a 1000, go ahead and get it. You will not be disappointed with the maneuverability of the 1000, and you will probably be able to outmaneuver 600s under the control of riders with less skill than you.

I'm not an engineer or a racer, though. Just a forum reader and enthusiast who has gotten that take from what I have read and heard from others.

Yes!!!

weight effects alot.

dry weight of my ducati 1098 381 lbs.
dry weight of my cbr1100xx 491 lbs.


can I feel the difference in handling....

Hell yes...

are they both fast as hell.....

Hell yes!

.

^^^ You have a Duc 1098 and a Blackbird?  You are totally the shit, Wonder Woman!

I read your post, then looked at your avatar...and almost choked on my drink! lol!

yes...she is a redbird...definetly has wonder woman undertones to it....
doncha think?

quote:

ORIGINAL: voodoochyl

^^^ You have a Duc 1098 and a Blackbird?  You are totally the shit, Wonder Woman!

 
Thats is the shit!
 
 
18lbs... that's nothing, I can make up that difference after 1 sitting on the throne.

May have overlooked it in this thread in someone's post, but don't think I've seen anyone mention up to this point.. Weight to torque ratio plays A key factor in overall performance. It comes down to good old mathematics, doesn't it whether it be geometry of center of gravity or the biker straight-line performance, where weight to torque ratio plays its biggest fact

Damn fine ride!  Very sexy, WW...pics of the Duc?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Redd

I read your post, then looked at your avatar...and almost choked on my drink! lol!

yes...she is a redbird...definetly has wonder woman undertones to it....
doncha think?

 
I'm even more impressed then the time I saw the pic of you pointing that gun! Damn!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Redd

I read your post, then looked at your avatar...and almost choked on my drink! lol!

yes...she is a redbird...definetly has wonder woman undertones to it....
doncha think?

 
    damn, what year is that bike?  that thing is clean....
 
and how do you like the 1098?  my uncle is wanting to get a new bike and can't decide between the 1098 or an R1 (going mainly on looks i think).

So if weight is not as important as center of mass then I still dont understand why there is big difference. If we compare f4i to 1000RR - all main components are located on similar places, which means weight distribution is very similar. What makes the difference then?
 
Also, if the only thing that stops liter bikes from being as flickable as 600 is weight distribution, then why they spending money on researching new light materials to shave off those 5 extra lbs from year to year that won't make any noticable differnce, if all they need to do is to take what they have and move around, to move center of mass to where it should be (higher?). Even if it will be just some useless ballast on the top, it should still be the winner?

weight distribution and balance are important, but a 450 pound bike with proper weight distribution should outperform a 400 pound bike with proper weight distribution.  this is why research is done on lighter-weight materials.  sure the difference from one year to the next might not be that significant, but consider the difference over a longer period of time.  my '92 Katana 600 had a steel frame, and that thing was HEAVY.  my '01 929 feels like a mountain bike compared to the Katana, both because of its lighter weight and better distribution/center-of-mass.  unsprung weight  (wheels, calipers, rotors, etc) should also be kept as light as possible because their load isn't distributed through the suspension.  also a light weight exhaust can be beneficial, because most exhausts exit to one side, (slightly) upsetting the side-to-side balance of weight.  if you ride primarily on the street, then these things won't really matter as much.. but if you're racing, they can be the difference between a podium finish and a middle-of-the-pack finish.  i've never raced sportbikes but i used to race circle track cars and most of the same general principles apply... reduce unsprung weight as much as possible, make the car as light as possible, and then add balast (the cars have a minimum weight for each class at most circle track venues) to get the right distribution of weight along with the proper suspension setup, or you'll run consistently in the middle of the pack at best.

Well it's not as simple as weight to center mass. I was trying to say that all the little differences combine together to create a significantly different effect. Though I was also saying that the effect was not THAT significant. Now the Honda site is down for the 1000RR as I write this, but I do believe that the F4i has a slightly steeper rake (by a degree or less) and slightly less trail (by less than an inch) and slightly lower seat height (implying a lower center). The weight distribution (percent on front wheel vs rear wheel) is probably geared to support the greater rear wheel traction demands than on a less powerful bike. The wheelbase of the F4i is probably an inch or two shorter than the 1000RR. And then the F4i does indeed weigh a couple pounds less overall. So the F4i probably does handle a bit better than the 1000RR. The 600RR is lighter still and designed to be even nimbler still. These little fractions of a degree and fractions of an inch differences in the geometries of the three bikes combine with the slight differences in weight to create differences in handling. The differences will be significant, with the 600RR being the lightest and nimblest, followed by the F4i, and then the 1000RR. However, to all but the world-class racers, the differences are not super great. And all 3 bikes will handle similarly when compared against Gold Wings, Cruisers, Sport Tourers, and bikes from other classes.
 
I agree with you that the F4i will probably handle closer to the 600RR than it will to the 1000RR even though its weight is closer to the 1000RR, seeing as the two 600s are likely to have more similarities in design. However, the 1000RR will be the most markedly different overall because of the overwhelming power. The 600RR has a noticeable edge over the F4i in terms of power, but both are comlpletely dwarfed by the literbike. That's why I said, if you need the speed, go for the 1000RR. It will handle close enough to your F4i.
 
Anyway, people seem to say that the 600RR is noticeably more flickable than the literbike. The 30-lb difference in weight factors into that along with the slight differences in geometries to create that effect. The F4i is probably somewhere between the two in handling. Not having ever ridden an F4i or a 1000RR, I am not the guy to critique exactly where it will fall.\
 
The bikes are indeed all similar in their specs, weight included. They will all handle similarly when compared to bikes of other genres. However, the little differences add up to noticeable effect.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rmr1923

weight distribution and balance are important, but a 450 pound bike with proper weight distribution should outperform a 400 pound bike with proper weight distribution. 

 
I think you forgot to add a word or something in there because if both bikes had same engines and rider weights and had proper weight distribution, the lighter bike would beat the heavier one every time.
 
In any event, unless you are racing, 18lbs makes no difference in rideability. Also, you are looking at a lot of HP difference between those two bike and that 18lbs won't matter at all when on the gas.
 
I have an F2 and I can tell the difference between when the tank is full and when it is 3 gallons lighter. Turning is much easier when the bike is almost empty. Of course, this is because the weght is at the top of the bike. If the tank was at the bottom, you wouldn't be able to tell.

Another factor in the bike's flickability is tire profile.  The 1000RR has a 190/50 rear tire, and the 600RR and F4i have a 180/55.
 
The liter bike needs more rubber to transfer all that power to the road without spinning out, but it comes at a cost in how easy it falls into a turn.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MikeInCtown

I think you forgot to add a word or something in there because if both bikes had same engines and rider weights and had proper weight distribution, the lighter bike would beat the heavier one every time.

 
i guess i failed to elaborate on what i meant by "outperform"... i was mainly referring to the bike's ability to corner (not the bike's overall performance, which would include handling AND acceleration), which depends more on weight/geometry/suspension setup than power (of course you can manipulate the way it handles with the throttle as well, but you're not going to take a turn at full throttle very often). 
 

quote:

ORIGINAL: Munson
 
Another factor in the bike's flickability is tire profile.  The 1000RR has a 190/50 rear tire, and the 600RR and F4i have a 180/55

 
i remember reading something not too long ago about tire profile and the bike's turn-in characteristics, but i wish i could find more tests and/or studies that have been done on this.  i do remember reading that as rear tire profiles kept getting wider, they found that it was (slightly) more difficult to get the bikes to turn in, but like you said, the extra rubber is needed for the liter bike to transfer the power to the road without spinning out.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rmr1923

quote:

ORIGINAL: Redd

I read your post, then looked at your avatar...and almost choked on my drink! lol!

yes...she is a redbird...definetly has wonder woman undertones to it....
doncha think?

    damn, what year is that bike?  that thing is clean....

and how do you like the 1098?  my uncle is wanting to get a new bike and can't decide between the 1098 or an R1 (going mainly on looks i think).

She is clean as a whistle in that pic...that was right after I put her back together after new paint and some other mods I made.

Its a 2002, I bought it with 11K miles on it.  It was originally silver, but I painted it red, has an undertail, hugger, high mount renegade exhaust, custom decals, solos seat cowl (not in the pic), and chromed rims. 

the 1098 is a fricken trip!  just has a bottomless pit of torque.  I love the ducati, but need to get an aftermarket exhaust.  I have to install my new open clutch cover and new pressure plate on it, and then save up for the exhaust.  (expensive!)  If you want to see a full pic of the duc, I have one on my myspace page in my photos.  Its not set to private anymore for the complainers...lol.

forgot to add, I black chromed the alternator and clutch covers.  It looks sharp, kind of a blueish tone to it.

I'm always trimming my bike's weight any way I can, either by removing useless pedestrian crap, or by replacing steel brackets with hand fabricated aluminum ones.  However, I am always conscious of distribution.  I never really want to take too much off of the front end because it will affect handling.   I am an extremely light rider, so I actually notice even the smallest changes in my bike.    For normal people who aren't built like a whippett, small changes in weight shouldn't be too apparent.  But power to weight is a huge factor in how a bike performs. 

Ever start to post something and realize you're not really saying anything?  I think I just did that.  Sorry, it's about to rain and I have to have something motorcycle going on...

get a 1000 and go on a diet to lose 18 lbs...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Redd
If you want to see a full pic of the duc, I have one on my myspace page in my photos.  Its not set to private anymore for the complainers...lol.

 
Actually, I just logged in to myspace and tried to click your pics. It is still set to private as far as I can tell.

quote:

ORIGINAL: baileyjn

quote:

ORIGINAL: Redd
If you want to see a full pic of the duc, I have one on my myspace page in my photos.  Its not set to private anymore for the complainers...lol.

Actually, I just logged in to myspace and tried to click your pics. It is still set to private as far as I can tell.

ooops...sorry bout that.  I changed it.  It should work now

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daffy472

According to honda site:
F4i dry weight - 370 lbs
1000RR dry weight - 388 lbs

Everybody says that liter bikes are much heavier, but 18 lbs difference is nothing. For example the difference between full and empty tank is 40 lbs. Do you feel the difference? I don't.

So, does it really feels THAT heavier as they say? Or riding f4i with full/empty tank is pretty much the same difference as riding f4i/liter bike?

My bike is a chubby, but I still love her.   Hey!   Big girls need lovin too and I'm here to give it to them.

My '01 VFR is rockin in at 458.6 pounds dry and the '07 are at 481lbs.

'07 cbr 600 is at 345lbs dry.    '07 1000 RR Fireblade is at 388lbs dry.


Since my bike is a sport/tourer its gonna be heavier than a "sport" bike.   I've never been on a 600cc but I'm sure its waaaayyyy different than my hefty girl.