Dyno/quarter mile results

Yesterday afternoon I had my 1990 Honda CBR600F dynoed at the local Honda dealership for one of their summer sale parties.  Here is the information regarding my bike:

YEAR: 1990
MILEAGE: 25,800

MODS: K&N filter
         Yoshi header pipe with V&H SS2-R muffler
         Factory Pro 6 degree ignition advancer

GEARING: stock gearing (44/15)

JETTING: Stock pilots (38s) at 2-3/4 out
            Dynojet needles with shims set at stage 2 position (4th clip down)
            Keihin 110 mainjets (stock jets)

RESULTS: RUN 1
79.35 degrees F
29.21 in-Hg
humidity 24%
SAE 1.01
Max Power 55.07 HP
Max Speed (4th gear) 105.00 MPH

RESULTS: Run 2
80.69 degrees F
29.21 in-Hg
humidity 25%
SAE 1.02
Max power 56.74 HP
Max speed (4th gear) 106.37

I'm a little dissapointed with the results because I would have guessed that it would have been up around 60-70 rear wheel hoespower.  Instead it was dynoed at about 57 RWHP.  The guys running the dyno said for a bike being 18 years old having 25,000 miles that was pretty good.  This the first time I have even seen a dyno in action so I was pretty exited see my bike strapped on top.  What are some of your thoughts about my runs?  I would of thought the exhaust and advancer would of helped out a bit?
 
EDIT:  Today our airport runway was converted to an NHRA style drag strip for the afternoon. 
Here were the results in fastest to slowest.
     E/T         R/T
1.   14.013    1.016
2.   14.065    1.047
3.   14.125    .749
4.   14.143    1.072
5.   14.162    1.183
6.   14.166    1.092
7.   14.191    1.280
8.   14.317    1.264
9.   14.368    1.232
10.  14.490    1.074
11.  14.55      N/A
12.  14.610    1.279

I recall also that it seemed to accelerate quicker down the track when I wasn't holding the thottle wide open but instead starting at 1/2 throttle and raising it as the rpms grew after hitting the next gear?  What is that indication of richness or leaness? 

IMO too rich in the center of the curve. If you full-throttle it and it bogs a little in the middle, but it's fine up top then you're too rich. You could maybe move UP a notch on the clip and see what happens, that will lean it out in the middle - 6-8 or 9k rpm.

But as you know, especially with your bike; I've been wrong before ;)

what was the stock rwhp when the 1990 was new ?

IDK about rwhp, but its stock was 93.00 HP (67.9 kW) @ 11000 RPM.

what octane/heat range plugs. how do your plugs look something is wrong. you wont be able to hang with anything. something is def wrong. looks like you didnt fix your problem. power to weight ratio your bike is slower than a es250

Plugs look great and I am running 87 octane. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: camoweasel

Plugs look great and I am running 87 octane. 

you seriously have to be kidding me right now. you are running 87octane on a +6 advancer......detination central just cuz you cant hear it doesnt mean its not there ;) do a rip shut down the motor right after the rip pull a plug and look at it. i bet you you will see metal particles on that plug.. you are runnin to much timing for that shit octane. hell on my 89 im runnin a +4 i only run 93 and if i feel daring turbo blue i dont trust runnin 87 even when the motor was stock better be safe than sorry.

N0, I have no pinging/detonation issues.  There are no metal shavings.  The spark plugs look fine.  Why would you run 93 with a stock bike even when the manual calls for 8 octane?  Running higher octane can cause you to lose power if your not tuned for it.  Factory Pro reccomends 87.  Like I said, there are no pinging issues except for extremely hot days when I am purposly bogging in 6th gear. 

You may not hear pinging but there is damn sure something wrong with your bike.  Detonation is a result of the combustion chamber setting of the explosion before it's supposed to.  Advancing the timing FAR enough and yes.......you will detonate.  (I dont know 100% that your bike will, but if you go far enough with even a lawn mower it will detonate).  Try a higher octane. It's not going to kill you for one tank. 
There is also something else wrong with it........I realize a noob rolling a 1/4 mile will not set any records but even half asleep I could run in the mid 12's on my stock 88 Hurricane. 
What are your MPH at the end of the 1/4?  That is a good indicator of the HP.  50 is way low.......should be in the high 60's to mid 70's if tuned even semi-ok. 
 
I would also be willing to bet your jetting is way lean even with the new needles.  Your main jets are stock?  With all that increase in airflow, you need to increase the fuel flow as well.  Heat.......(caused by running lean) will also contribute to detonation along with the +6.....it could easily be detonating. 

To check the plugs......you need to make a wide open run..and kill the engine.  Idling back to the pits will not give you a correct reading.  Did you do that?
 
Do as you please but there is certainly something wrong with it. 
Good luck.
 
 

I was running 117s for bit than tried some 125s.  When I was running these jets especially the 125s it seemed not to accelerate as fast as it did when it was only at part throttle meaning it was running rich at the top end.  Once I dropped down to the 110s the bogginess went away ans seemed to pull harder too.  Remember that the jets provided by Dynojet in the stage 1 kit are equal to Kehin 100s and 105s.  Dynojet and Keihin jets are rated on different scales.  Those needles are much thinner than the stock ones.  Tonight I experimented by dropping the e-clips back down to the stage 1 setting (3rd notch).  I will run it to tommarow and see how it responds.  Marc Salvisburg from Factory Pro recommended 87 octane because he said the head designs were fairly ping resistant. 

thank you some else understands this concept. its not metal shaving but tiny metal specs from detination that land on the plugs and really can only be seen when you turn off the motor after doing a 100% full load in 1 gear. if you do not shut down and check the plugs you end up washing out the plugs due to the gas. those little metal shaving are from your pistons breaking apart which in turn can cause hot spots on the pistons you do not want that. and how can you say i didnt change the motor why would i need to run 93+ octane in the bike? you did not change the engine itself but you did change the time when your plugs will fire in relation to the height of the piston to head. when your detinating in 6th gear at low rpm and real hot you arnt detinating you are pre igniting big difference. i want to see your plot of the dynos uncorrected as i read you had 1.03 correction rate(smooths out) that will be an indication.

I'm not stupid when it comes to reading spark plugs.  I've already done countless full throttle runs up to about 100 mph than shutting the motor down after I pull the clutch in.  Guess what no shavings or pieces of pistons melted onto the plugs.  Just tan normal looking plugs.    I understand the whole concept of higher octane fuels and detenation.  Regardless, octane alone doesn't account for that much of a loss.

EDIT:  Also remember the mainjets now are actually bigger then the ones provided in the stage 1 kit.  Stage 1 jets are actually equivelent to about a 100 and a 105. 

I would guess your not getting enough fuel. you absolutely should be around 70hp at the rear wheel. Especially if you can run it half throttle and it runs better and you have to baby it up in the rpms.
 
I would do a compression test and a leak down test to make sure its within range. If that all checks out ok, I would then move onto increasing the jet size futher. Being that your bike has a full exhaust, intake mods and advanced timing, you need quite a bit more fuel than stock or even a stage one kit. I would actaully go as large as I could until the plugs started to look darker. then maybe back off one size. If you have the stock components, I would start switching them back to stock one at a time and see if there is a problem. I would start with the intake and move onto the timing advancer.
 
Also, you may want to put the tubes back in. Sometimes when they are removed. It creates a lot of turbulance within the air box. not a huge deal, but you can actually loose a few hp. I would consider using aftermarket aluminum tubes, but I would leave tubes of some sort in place.

Something is VERY wrong. Those Dyno and 1/4 results are way off. You should easily be in the 12 second range if you can ride at all. My car has 425 crank HP and ways about 3500 pounds. It runs the 1/4 in 12.6 seconds on street tires. My ''88 cane is quicker. I would really start searching for the answer. My cane is fast compared to some others due to little secrets but not that far off.

Last week, I decided to move the e-clips up to the 3rd clip as per the Stage 1 instructions.  Let me say that I was shocked as to how the throttle response improved and those full throttle runs seem crisp and less boggier.  Here is an email response I recieved from Dynojet regarding their jet kits for this bike model:
 
The Dynojet main jets are sized differently than the stock main jets and the tip of the Dynojet needle is smaller than the stock needle allowing for fuel through the main jets, do to this you can not compare the stock jets to the jets in the kit.


 



Michael Cory
Research & Development
Phone: 800-992-4993
 
Here is a great credible website that explains how to read your plugs when checking the jetting of your bike.  Alot of people misunderstand how they think the color of the porcelin is the indicator of how the A/F ratio is. 
http://www.4strokes.com/tech/sparkplg.asp

Would a change in needle clip height effect the 1/4 mile ET?   Reason being is due the increased snappiness after moving the needles up to the 3rd clip.  Next week are the races and I want to try and improve my times. 

It certainly could have an effect.  Anything you do to help it run better will improve 1/4 time but ET is not an indicator of HP, that is an indicator of how quick you can get rolling from a standing start.  HP is measured by MPH.  You can run .2 slower but have a higher mph becaue you make more HP but got a slower 60ft. 
Do you know the MPH?  You should be in the 112-116mph range at the end of the 1/4......it sounds like you might only be in the 98-102mph now. 

That sounded about right.  When my bike was dynoed, it did 106 at the redline in forth gear which is about where it was when I crossed the finish line. 

UPDATE:  After a few races at the local airport, I definitely improved my ETs and RTs.  The changes I made from last time was a needle adjustment, replaced spark plugs, and loosened the chain a bit.  My first run I improved right off the bat.  I beat a brand new Ninja 650 and newer CBR 600 but lost 3 times to Suzuki Bolevard 1500 and a sled. (Boy they got some juice!!).  Here are my times listed from slowest to fastest.
 
ET.        RT.
13.406   .740
13.390   1.150
13.374   .925
13.265   .898
13.196   1.033
13.150   .921
13.087   .866
 
They way i see it, this bike is capable of breaking into the 12s but I still need the practice.  I really improved my launces because my RPMS hardly dropped as I let off the clutch.  There was also a little tire slippage but overall I really think this was a big step.  I beat a new Ninja 650!!  Not bad for an 18 year old bike with nearly 27,000 miles. 

First of all, whoever did the dyno runs are compete idiots because in order to get correct numbers you should be doing a fifth gear roll on and not a fourth gear roll on. Second, motorcyles are designed to be run on higher octane fuel regardless of what the manual says because of their higher compression ratio. Runnig a higher octain will not hurt the motor, higher horepower numbers can actually be achieved by just running better fuel alone.  I cant think of the company but there is a company that sells 118 octane fuel that will increase power by 3%.  Do to the price of it ($11 a gallon) I wouldn''t recommend it but this is just an example of how higher octane fuel can increase horsepower and efficiency in a motorcycle.  Last but not least, when doing modifications to your motor a carbs make shure to do things one step or setting at a time.  Going balls out on your settings will not allow you to see what correct setting on those aftermarket parts is right for your bike.  Just cause the jets have 5 settings doesnt mean that your bike will run bettier on the highest setting.