F4i Rearset Lift: Alternative to silly-expensive rearsets... - Page 2

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVracer04

yeh, well said

but i just think its funny cuz he will say im wrong but repeat what i even just stated in different wording

 
And when have I done that?!?!?!?!?? 
 
If I think you're wrong on something, why would I try to make it my own statement.
 
If you're going to accuse me of something, please show some evidence to support your accusation.

quote:

ORIGINAL: abadfish

No, that is not right.

Any deviation from that then either the upshift or the downshift will not get the full range of motion that is required and will, thus, cause extra wear on your tranny components.
 

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVracer04

they are putting the same amount of effort into the lever which WILL NOT make any difference inside your gear box

sorry when i said effort, i meant work/force/movement which ever term u find easier to understand

no lets all stfu and get sum sleep

Perhaps I wasn't clear and/or you are misreading what I said.
 
What I meant by you won't get the full range of motion, I was referring to the internal movement of the gearbox components.  The internals need to move a certain amount to properly shift the gears.  This full range of motion will not occur if the "dot" and "slash" aren't aligned and, thus, the extra wear on tranny components.

perhaps you can read AND/OR interpret what im writing....


if the spindle(the thing you keep calling a dot) still moves the same amount, it doesnt matter if that dot was on my ass.... the gear shift drum inside would never know the difference

my whole point was that if the dot and slash aren't aligned, the spindle won't move the amount it needs to (either the downshift or the upshift will fall short).

no sh!t... which is why uve been saying the same thing i have for the past 5 posts yet saying im wrong

i think u.. the dot... and the slash should get a room

If I've been saying the same thing as you, why are you telling me I'm wrong. 
 
Yes, the dot, the slash, and I should get a room.  whatever.

Wow... just read all of this.  Quite the development.  Here's my take on it:

The shift lever itself is a floating element.  Its position and range of motion are determined by the linkage that connects to the shaft that goes into the tranny, not the other way around.  If there were limits on the lever's travel, i.e., specific endpoints for the travel on the shifter itself, it makes total sense that by moving the shift lever you're going to affect the amount of rotation that occurs on the shaft itself. 

This, however, is not the case.  When I originally did this mod, I thought about all of this.  Therefore, I tested it.  I looked at precisely how much the shaft rotated each way in both positions and determined that it is the same, regardless of lever position, since again, the lever's center and end positions are determined by the position of the shaft, not vice versa.(obviously when shifting, the lever controls the rotation of the shaft, but at the end of the range of motion it is the shaft that hits the enpoint first, not the lever--If you don't believe it, go pull the linkage off yours and watch the lever fall limp.  I hope this all makes sense!)

I understand the manufacturer warning against things like this, just like they warn against removing factory signals or undertails.  Manufacturers don't like consumers screwing with their products. 

no sense in educating those who refuse to learn abad...
if you are all speaking on the same terms the stop insulting one another and hug.

as far as my take on this...is...mess with it yourself and you'll know. there shouldn't be much tension at the spindle end and should resemble as close to 90 degrees as possible for maximum (easiest) shifting.
 
ride around with your foot resting on the shift lever, giving it just enough tension so as to be more than if there was no load on it, but right before it shifts...and see what happens to the tranny after some time. this would = badly adjusted shift rod (only if the spindle had too much tension on it).

i run gp style without the cover so i don't give a rat's ass about lining the schiznit up...and it has nothing to do with standard manufacturer's warnings, etc...as abad said, that's why if you buy aftermarket rearsets and rearset adaptors, it comes with a longer shift rod to allow you to remain within manufacturer's specs...

quote:

ORIGINAL: abadfish

If I've been saying the same thing as you, why are you telling me I'm wrong. 
 
Yes, the dot, the slash, and I should get a room.  whatever.

no u havent been... u have the same idea yet u claim "the dot" and the "slash" have to be ligned up in order to achieve the correct force on the spindle

plain and simple... if u move ur rearset lever(not the peg) up and back 1"
...then ur gonna have to move the lever arm on the spinle up and back 1"

which jjbtao just said

and sorry, i cant take anyone seriously who writes in purple font

ahhh, so after re-reading all of this, I think I've made sense of the confusion.  The manufacturer warns against misaligning the linkage.  I'm certain there's one reason for this: 

If you were to leave the rearsets in their original position and misalign the linkage, then yes, there would not be enough range of motion (one way or another) in the lever to allow proper shifting.  This would likely (in a best-case scenario) cause binding in one direction (as if your toe was resting on the shifter, like Tahoe's example) and an incomplete engagement in the other direction (like a never-ending missed shift, ready to pop out of gear).  Either of these would be bad, for certain.  In a worst-case scenario, one I believe is even more likely, your shift lever will end up in an entirely unusable position, or perhaps one that isn't even mountable.

However, doing this sort of mod throws all that out the window.

When you remove everything, do the modification to the rearset that I did, be smart about it and be sure that nothing binds and the full range of motion is accomplished, there's really nothing to worry about.  No unusual stress is created whatsoever.  Shift up, shift down, the spindle is happy. 

I appreciate the warning that was brought up just as I appreciated Tahoe's concerns about the strength of it early on.  It's nice to know we're all looking out for eachother in the quest for knowledge and understanding.

I also appreciate Tahoe's latest comment, "mess with it yourself and you'll know."  That's a rule to live by.

yes i remember my concerns regarding the strength of the set up. i think as long as it's cranked tight and loctite on or whatever, unless bish was doing motocross jumps or weighed like a ton...should be ok.

personally, aside from aligning the line and the dot, i've noticed that i get best shifting force when the linkage forms as close to 90 degrees as possible (but hard to do since as you adjust the shifter itself, the spindle gets pulled or pushed one way and then it's all off again, blah blah blah). i would attach at the spindle side last and try to get as close as possible...but now i've gone reverse shift so nothing lines up! i just make sure that there isn't any tension on the spindle at all.

now everyone go mess with it yourself...
and let's GROUP HUG AND KISS AND MAKE UP***
 
***make up S3x optional

im gonna have to agree with tahoe on this one and jjbtao on this one. as long as there is not a constant tension put upon the shaft that moves the shift forks, then youll be ok. with gp style shifting, you completely rotate the linkage, and it still works just fine. also, many formula sae teams use electronic/pneumatic shifting solenoids on the transmission that are mounted at different angles and work just fine. as long as the geometry between all the moving parts of the linkage stays the same, the shifter will act the same.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tahoe SC

yes i remember my concerns regarding the strength of the set up. i think as long as it's cranked tight and loctite on or whatever, unless bish was doing motocross jumps or weighed like a ton...should be ok.

personally, aside from aligning the line and the dot, i've noticed that i get best shifting force when the linkage forms as close to 90 degrees as possible (but hard to do since as you adjust the shifter itself, the spindle gets pulled or pushed one way and then it's all off again, blah blah blah). i would attach at the spindle side last and try to get as close as possible...but now i've gone reverse shift so nothing lines up! i just make sure that there isn't any tension on the spindle at all.

now everyone go mess with it yourself...
and let's GROUP HUG AND KISS AND MAKE UP***



***make up S3x optional

hey how much did u get the GP shift kit for? and does it take a while to get used to?

i just flipped the linkage 180 degrees...and removed the sprocket cover.
there is an attchment that i've seen which allows you to keep the cover as it extends the linkage further out to clear the sprocket cover, but i couldn't find it anywhere!

Awesome Awesome Awesome idea! Great mod and +many points for doing it your way and cheaply. The roads in my area aren't good enough to lay it down so I'll probably wait til' winter before I do this.

Just did this mod.. works great.... nut are a little tricky...... but it all work out in the end... Thanks !

Just finished doing this mod, and now i'm gonna take the bike out for a test ride ;)
 
Thanks for sharing this!
 

does the shifter linkage have to be adjusted and if so how do u do that i dont want to screw anything up reading this whole post its confusing me greatly

Has anybody done this to a 929? If so what do I look out for?

the shifter you will have to take one side of the shifter rod loose n put the extension on it, then adjust it to you liking then snug the lock nuts on each end.

on the 929 I''m not sure of as I havent seen those particular ones on one.