flapper mod and air filter mod

New to the forum,
How's everyone? I've heard about pple doing a flapper mod and air filter mod to the 1000rr. Does anyone know about this and how to do it? I have the new repsol edition and a '01 929rr. Thanks for the help.

Unless you're willing to also buy a PCIII USB and take the time to have it dyno-tuned then you prolly shouldn't bother with it. The flapper mod is just removing the flapper which gives you more air all the time. The way FI bikes handle this change is to throw more gas in at lower RPM's. So you'll be running reeeeeeal rich until 100mph + when the ram air starts kicking in.

There's also a flapper in the stock can -- aftermarket can takes care of that one

I'm not sure about the air filter mod -

The flapper mod is a good one, and doesn't require mapping.
It doesnt change anything past 5500rpm as the flapper in
stock trim is fully open by then anyway.

It takes 2 minutes to do, and it completly (and qucikly) reversible.

Read here: http://www.rogueracing.org/flap.htm

The "Air Filter Mod" simply refers to removing the screens
from the stock filters to allow slightly more flow.

Testing shows the stockers flow more then enough for the
stock bike, but others swear by a 2hp gain from BMC Race filters.

i`ve done these mods to my 06 1000rr. MAKE SURE YOU REMOVE ALL THE SCREENING FROM THE FILTERS, EVEN THE PIECES IN THE GLUE TOP AND BOTTOM OF FILTERS, TAKE YOUR TIME.dont want any metal in the cylinders now! also the butterfly in the stock exhaust can be removed fairly easily, getting the pipe off is the pain in the ass, as all the rear trim has to come off. disconnect cables to butterfly, when the pipe is off,place bracket in vise so you can see the butterfly, bend tabs off of screws,remove screws, then butterfly. then  you need to press the bushings out of the pipe. i did this by using a socket that fit on the bushing, hitting a few good shots and the shaft and bushing came out opposite side. remove shaft from pipe tap bushings back into pipe. get two blind head bolts and washers  that are long enough to go from inside pipe through bushing, dab of silicone on bolt, fasten with nut  and locktite. i was lucky and able to remove cables for exhaust valve by jiggling around without removing motor for valve. get pcIII usb and install, comes with enhanced stock map from dynojet,{called and asked}with all put back together, follow directions  using buttons and add 4% fuel, 2 bars to low position. prepare to be completely satisfied! email me with any questions.

quote:

ORIGINAL: chainstretcher
 The way FI bikes handle this change is to throw more gas in at lower RPM's. So you'll be running reeeeeeal rich until 100mph + when the ram air starts kicking in.

this would be true if the bike had an o2 sensor and could tell how much air was going through it.  maps are based off of air temp from the IAT sensor on top of the air box, throttle position, and rpm.

as the temp of the bike goes up enrichment circuits kick in to help keep it cool

quote:

ORIGINAL: baxsom
this would be true if the bike had an o2 sensor and could tell how much air was going through it.  maps are based off of air temp from the IAT sensor on top of the air box, throttle position, and rpm.

Since these bikes also have a manifold absolute pressure sensor, they know how much air is going into the engine and they inject the right about of fuel (at WOT).  At part throttle they have rich spots as we've both seen.
 

quote:


as the temp of the bike goes up enrichment circuits kick in to help keep it cool

 
Actually, isn't the enrichment (for cooling purposes) based on engine temp?  With engine temps normal, the system would inject less fuel at higher air temps to keep the AFR from getting too out of whack.  All of my AFR measurements seemed pretty stable over a range of temperatures, but I didn't test during really hot weather. 
 
 

    yeah but we are not talking about WOT (in which case the flapper would be open anyway)

still since 2004 there have been hundreds of thousands of people who have done this mod and the results are 99.9999% favorable. 
and yes the air temp is more for the fuel enrichment and fast idle at startup. however it will mess with the bike at high temps say at a stoplight. the air heats up inside the airbox and causes the map to richen.
thats why the bike will bog when it is around 220ish at a stoplight

quote:

ORIGINAL: baxsom
    yeah but we are not talking about WOT (in which case the flapper would be open anyway)

 
Oh geez...  Please don't tell me you're buying into Ty's fairy tale about the "flapper variable function" and the "rigged" dyno runs he was describing.  In stock form, the flapper is completely shut at 5500 RPM and below, even at WOT.  And why has WOT been ruled out of this conversation?  The point is that these bikes can tell how much air is flowing into the engine.  Mass air flow is based on a speed-density calculation.

quote:


still since 2004 there have been hundreds of thousands of people who have done this mod and the results are 99.9999% favorable. 
and yes the air temp is more for the fuel enrichment and fast idle at startup. however it will mess with the bike at high temps say at a stoplight. the air heats up inside the airbox and causes the map to richen.
thats why the bike will bog when it is around 220ish at a stoplight

Yes, people love the flapper mod, I get it.  I also realize it has the potential to be more beneficial than I initially thought.  I'm not here to try and talk people out of doing it.
 
If your bike bogs at 220 deg. how do you know the IAT is what's making the map richer?  It very well could be just the coolant temp prompting the map change.
 
  

    i think you are confusing the MAP with a MAF or mass air flow sensor, the MAP registers vacuum created by the engine. not air going into the engine. 

and as far as IAT vs coolant temp. i am pretty sure its the IAT because once the bike is moving and has air flowing through it the bogging stops even though the bike is still in the 200s.

i will be the first to admit that i am not an expert in this particular subject so there is the possibility i could be wrong but i do know how the parts work and what they do to the bike.

Right, the MAP sensor does not directly measure mass air flow.  But... in speed-density systems, the MAP is one of the parameters needed to make the mass air flow calculation.
 
About the flapper, there is a vacuum reservoir and a check valve that maintain vacuum to the flapper diaphragm until the ECU de-energizes the solenoid at ~5600 RPM.  Even if engine vacuum drops to zero, the flapper stays closed at engine speeds under 5600.  I've tested and verified this.  And it makes perfect sense if you're goal is to reduce induction noise.  All this talk of the flapper "variable function" and the "rigged dyno run" are nothing but figments of Ty's imagination.  It simply can't happen with the stock setup.

    what rigged dyno run are you talking about.  run 1 with flapper plugged in. run 2 with flapper disabled. 
run 2 had a hp increase.  whats rigged about it.

go to this site
http://hooliganbiketech.net/hondacbr1000rrweb/1000RR_frameindex.htm
click on the easy flapper mod link. he has a dyno chart posted of before after flapper mod from the same bike on the same dyno on the same day. a 3hp increase between 4400 and 7200 rpms right where the flapper is closed to open

I'm not talking about the hooliganbiketech site.  I'm talking about Ty's theory that the flapper will open to some degree (depending on throttle) at engine speeds under 5500, the so-called "variable function".  He also spoke of a rigged dyno run.  Read the fifth post here http://www.cbrforum.com/m_198202/mpage_4/tm.htm if you want to know what I'm referring to. 
 
A few posts ago you said. "yeah but we are not talking about WOT (in which case the flapper would be open anyway)"
I wasn't sure exactly what you meant, but it sounded similar to Ty's idea that the flapper can open at low RPM.  In reality the flapper is always fully  closed below 5500 RPM. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: SD2007


A few posts ago you said. "yeah but we are not talking about WOT (in which case the flapper would be open anyway)"
I wasn't sure exactly what you meant, but it sounded similar to Ty's idea that the flapper can open at low RPM.  In reality the flapper is always fully  closed below 5500 RPM. 

someone mentioned about WOT and the impacts to the MAP.  i fully admit the entire electronic system in its entirety is a subject i dont know a lot about. i know what each independent part does but not sure how they work together. but like i said before, a MAP only reads pressure inside the manifold not the airbox. the MAP could care less how much air is coming into the airbox. it reads the vacuum inside the engine to add fuel.  low vacuum means more fuel.  (according to the guys at 1000rr.net anyway)  a MAF on the otherhand reads the air actually going into an airbox or engine and then yes a change like the flapper mod would make more drastic changes

I know exactly what MAP and MAF sensors are, what they do, and generally where they are located.  An EFI system can't accurately maintain the desired AFR unless the mass of the air going into the engine is known.  Generally there are two ways to do this: A MAF sensor or a calculated mass flow based on MAP, IAT, RPM, and formula or table based on flow tests for the manifold.