gearing down ???

why is it that when im travleing @ 80mph and i gear down too much the back end of the bike kicks out on me ?? its scared the living shyt out of me ! i was just curious on why that happens!??!??!

OK. Dominicanwonder5, please do not be offended, but I read this the same as if you wrote: I just decided to buy a CBR1000RR as my first ever bike!!! That is scary!! I hope this is not the case.
 
What happens is that when you downshift and let the clutch go, your engine's compression slows down your rear wheel (it is the same as when you downshift with your car, you are using your engine compression to slow down).
 
Now, also remember that when you decelerate, their is a weight transfer from the rear to the front, which makes your bike's rear end lighter (this is why most of the braking on a motorcycle comes from the front wheel). That is also why it is easy to lock the rear wheel, if you do not pay attention.
 
So, especially if you were already high in the RPM range and that you downshift and let the clutch go very quickly, your engine compression acts like a brake on your rear wheel and can lock it. That is why you experienced the kicking that you described... you locked your rear wheel.
 
A few tips (only my 2 cents, Bro):

- Try and blip the throttle swiftly just before you let the clutch go, when downshifting. With practice, you will know just how much blip to give the engine so that when you let the clutch go, the engine RPM is already up where the new gear would have brought it to. This, plus letting the clutch go gradually instead of instantly, will help you avoiding the rear wheel to lock.
 
- If you are new to riding, try and avoiding downshifts when you are already high in the rpm range. Practice the ''throttle blipping'' at a relaxed pace, and mostly, lower in the rpm range (lets say from 6th gear to 5th gear at cruising speed). When you are able to perform seamless downshifts lower in the RPM range (in high gears), you can practice a little higher in the RPM range or in gears as low as the 2nd gear. You will notice that at a given speed, because of the gear ratios, you feel more compression when let's say you downshift from 3rd to 2nd than from 4th to 3rd. So avoid unnecessary downshifts when you are already hight in the rpm range, untill you are an experienced rider.
 
- NEVER downshift to 1st gear!! The only times you should downshift to first gear is when you are coming to a complete stop and that you will have to take off from a stop (or at a speed so slow that your bike would ''jerk'' in 2nd gear). Of course, when you are an accomplished rider and that you master the whole thing, there are circumstances where you can downshift in first gear, but we will leave it for now.
 
You know, even if you do not plan on becoming an AMA Superbike Champ, I recommend everyone to enroll in a sport riding school. Before you spend money on things like a pipe, spend money on skills. Riding your bike becomes so much more rewarding, not to mention that it can (will) save your life.
 
Sorry for the long mail and I hope this helps.
 
Ride safe!!
 
Pat
 
 

Why would you do that?

quote:

ORIGINAL: mininsx

Why would you do that?

be more specific there is a lot things being said here.

basically the back end kicks out because of the torque of the motor.

blipping the throttle is revving the engine the instant you let out on the clutch so that the engine is spinning at the same rpm as the tranny
(also called rev matching)

a slipper clutch would stop this but is pricey.

a 1KRR as a first bike=rashed parts for sale on ebay

the only time i have ever had the back end step out on me was on the track going from 5th to 3rd in a tight corner, i messed up the blip before i turned it and the tail kicked out.

for normal street riding it should never happen

takes some practice if you have never had to operate a maunal transmisson before like a car or pickup.

LOL WHY DO YOU GUYS THINK ITS MY FIRST 10RR LOL ...making those asumptions is what makes ppl leave a forum like this...I THOUGHT FORUMS WERE FOR PPL TO ASK/ANSWER QUESTIONS.... NOT TRY TO AND MAKE YOUR OWN ASSUMPTIONS, AND TRY TO PUT PPL DOWN  !

I agree with you Domincan. You ask a question then get barraged with being a newbie rider who is going to wreck shortly.wtf???

    because pat1krr said that he just bought a 1000rr as his first bike ever
did you even read any of the other threads or are you so self centered that you think everything here revolves around you and your needs


and stop shouting

I dont think pat1krr was putting anyone down,but most people with riding expierence would know why the back tire was kicking out. Ask all the questions you want that's what were here for,but when you ask a question like that,it makes us think your a noob. Now dont go getting offened on me,because i'm surely not trying to do that. It's better you ask,and know why it happened,than to keep doing it,and have your bike lay down on you. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: dominicanwonder5

LOL WHY DO YOU GUYS THINK ITS MY FIRST 10RR LOL ...making those asumptions is what makes ppl leave a forum like this...I THOUGHT FORUMS WERE FOR PPL TO ASK/ANSWER QUESTIONS.... NOT TRY TO AND MAKE YOUR OWN ASSUMPTIONS, AND TRY TO PUT PPL DOWN  !

o calm down.. you asked a question and it was very well answerd.. second if this wasn't ur frist 1000rr.. then you would already know not to do this

Unless you're on a track I can't see any reason to gear down from 80 MPH.

Dominicanwonder5. The last thing I wanted to do is to insult you, I truly apologize if my reply did insult you. I don't understand why one would think that assuming someone is new to riding equals putting that person down... I mean, there would be nothing wrong with being a beginner, we have all been there at one point... Pehaps, a new rider buying a CBR1000RR as a first bike... it IS scary. I would not recommend anybody I care about, to start on such a bike. That is why on the second line of my reply, I said: ''I hope it is not the case.'' Period. End of the story.

Just like Sixshooter mentionned, I assumed that any experienced rider would know why the rear wheel would kick when downshifting... My mistake, I  sincerely apologize.

Perhaps, if my intention had been to bring you down, I would just have made a silly comment on your post and I would not have spent 45 minutes writing a reply to you to try and explain what is going on and how to avoid it.

My intention was to help you and I hope my post did help.

Speaking of helpful replies and added value...

s.ga.rider, I would point out to you that nowhere in my post have I assumed or even suggested that Dominicanwonder would wreck. If it is the conclusion you came to by yourself, you have the right to think so. But do not project your own thoughts on other people, as these are the type of comments that make threads to degenerate. Some readers do not read the whole tread and are just waiting to see posts like yours to jump in and add unnecessary oil the fire.

If you are interested in replying, bring added value, as very few posts in this thread helped Dominicawonder5 with his question (instead, even the mature and knowledgable members are busy trying to contain the fire).

Again, to all members, I apologize if my post was not written properly and caused harm.

Peace.

Pat.

Very well said.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PatK1RR


s.ga.rider, I would point out to you that nowhere in my post have I assumed or even suggested that Dominicanwonder would wreck. If it is the conclusion you came to by yourself, you have the right to think so. But do not project your own thoughts on other people, as these are the type of comments that make threads to degenerate. Some readers do not read the whole tread and are just waiting to see posts like yours to jump in and add unnecessary oil the fire.

Not trying to "add fuel to the fire" but I was referring to Baxsoms post about a 1k as a first bike = rashed fairings on ebay, not your post. I never singled you out  and I am not saying anything bad about you either baxsom. I dont recommend buying a liter bike as a first bike either. Hell, I started out on a 82 honda gs 500. lol If I would have bought a liter bike at 18 it would have surely been totaled.

I have just bought my first CBR 1000 , been riding since i was 14 now 52.
Speaking of downshifting, I have noticed that the CBRs must have high compression because when i come into a corner now and back off the bike slows dramatically on engine compression
alone compared to all the other bikes I have owned ,which i find great. Less use of brakes.
Or am i just imagining things ??
Bye the way, Fitted a Yoshi and powercommander last friday and its a rocketship now .........LOVE IT, lot more puchier and crisper on the throttle

    yeah butt dynos do tend to over read

go get it custom mapped and you will notice a big difference

quote:

ORIGINAL: dominicanwonder5

LOL WHY DO YOU GUYS THINK ITS MY FIRST 10RR LOL ...making those asumptions is what makes ppl leave a forum like this...I THOUGHT FORUMS WERE FOR PPL TO ASK/ANSWER QUESTIONS.... NOT TRY TO AND MAKE YOUR OWN ASSUMPTIONS, AND TRY TO PUT PPL DOWN  !

i was not trying to be make fun of you at all man. people are soo touchy on this forum sometimes. i mostly like to read the posts to try to learn as much as i can about bikes because it is quite new to me. my first is the 1000 and its not the beast that some people make it out to be. i hope some of the others members have helped you with your situation.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PatK1RR

Dominicanwonder5. The last thing I wanted to do is to insult you, I truly apologize if my reply did insult you.

 
pat you should feel like you were insulted.  you were very pleasant, and complete in your explaination responding, to in my opinion a rediculous question from an experienced rider.  if anyone has any seat time on any kind of street motorcycle they already know what causes the back end to spit out when you downshift too many gears and release the clutch without matching engine speed. 
 
i learned this many years ago on my 600, and all of my bikes since behaved the same way as it did.  hell my harley will do it.

Gentlemen,
   We all need to take a chill pill and try to learn from this forum. That is what it was design for. Leave your pride at the door and learn something from each other. Our egos is getting the best of us and sometimes if we slow down on the ego trip we may be able to absorb information for what it was intended for. With that said NO one knows everything. You can be an experience rider and still not know everything about a motorcycle. Yes you may know alot, but not everything there is to know. I have been a soldier for 12 year and I am still learning things about soldiering everyday. Life is a learning experience, embrace it and learn. you will never know everything about life, but you will learn alot in life. My first motorcycle was a CBR1000RR and I have lived thus far to tell my tale. So it is not the machine that we need to be worried about, but the operator behind the machine. The machine cannot operate without the operator and if he does not do a superb job at operating the machine, then there are consequences to his actions. So in closing gentlemen, I would like to see us learn and share our knowledge from this forum and not to bicker with each other.

I have only one question here. Why didn't Honda put a slipper clutch in this bike anyway? Weight savings ro what?
Even my 85 Suzuki GS550e had a slipper clutch. I found out the accidental way and pulled in the clutch and grabbed more brake then let out the clutch again. It was my first bike and that slipper clutch saved my bacon. A slipper clutch is what $1000 right. Thats two to three upgrades of something else (Like rearsets, PC3, and speedohealer. Actually pipes alone could cost that much if you get a full set.)
I think everyone is testy around here because we have been sitting in our cages waiting for the snow to stop and the roads to be de-stoned and de-iced. I for one am getting real antsy when I am commuting 500 miles a week in my car right now at 28 mpg. I can't wait for 38-42mpg on my bike and the release of stress on the ride home.

I believe the 08 CBR1000RR has the slipper clutch. In any case, someone asked why a rider would want to down shift at 80 mph. Well, that really depends on what gear the rider is at, and what the rider is trying to do. For instance, I frequently ride in 5th gear going at about 80. When I need to slow down, i down shift to 4th and blip the throttle. I have never down shift at that speed without blipping the throttle; but if a person did not know that the bike did not have a slipper clutch, then it is understandable why the rider did not blip the throttle. On the other hand, if the rider was really aggressive, the rider could down shift to get better acceleration. I have down shifted from 6th and 5th gear to get better acceleration response from the bike.
 
The way I see it, at 80 mph, you're still less than 1/2 the top speed of the bike. So, 4th gear seems to be a nice place to be for enhanced performance.