Performance recommends 600RR

Whoever is out there may know I recently got a 2004 CBR 600RR which right now is bone stock.

I need recommends on 2-4 good, but not too expensive, performance mods. ($1,500-$3500 money wise)

Like I think I want a Jardine full system or at least slip-on.

Maybe a Power Commander. (If so ...where to buy, what kind? a PC1, II, III?)

The forks and shocks are in new condition and the bike handles great...just needs setting up correctly.

Thanks for any help.

   

$3,500 is alot of cash so maybe wheels? They should help at any speed. Did F3 Racer ever get his fancy pants wheels on his bike?

    you would be suprised at how badly that suspsension actually does handle. 

even a revalving and respring for your exact weight would be a night and day difference. 

a full titanium system would help a lot with weight reduction which would help with cornering.  the jardine isnt going to do that.

the pc3 is a must with either a full or a slip on AND a custom map made specifically for your bike to smooth out torque and air fuel dips and spikes caused by any pipe.

wheels will help immensly. if i had that much money to spend a new set of wheels would be the first thing.  the marchichinis weigh a whole lot less than stock and every ounce of reduced rotating mass will make the bike behave so much better at speed because of the whole centrifical force thing when you try to corner.

also look into
better brake lines,
a 520 sprocket regearing will make the power you already have come on faster.

there are a lot of options, your first thing is to decide to you want something that is all power and no handling or a mixture

so baxsom, what would you suggest for the suspension issues?

yeah i have to second Bax...

the full-race exhaust...DEFINITELY a PCIII (hell i need one)....then a cheapy upgrade in the grand scheme of things...520 conversion with regearing (-1 front if you are going to be still in a lot of traffic, -1/+2 if you get mostly open road driving)

those things will give you a noticeable performance increase...then SS lines....maybe even a new set of calipers if you want, maybe brembos....

wheels will help you corner, not go faster but from what i have read the help cornering A LOT...

also...if you have the dough....get everything you can for the money minus about $150 and use that last bit to go get a dyno and have a custom map made...if you have the money and doing a lot of upgrades...at the very least have a dyno and custom map to get the most out of it....or you are essentially only getting a part of its full potential....i would DEFINITELY work that into your plans as a MUST after your upgrades....

you will likely get more bang for the buck with that custom tune than anything else...spend that money on something other than a tune and you would be gimping yourself...not saying those that don't have a custom map or bad...but if you have the dough....

other performance upgrades to consider...

quick-shifter...
speedo-healer...(should get if re-gearing anyways)
new fork springs and new rear shock...(then a suspension setup to maximize it)

damn i could go on and on...lol....i read about bikes WAY too much...and to think i only started riding in september of '06.....

ohlins 20mm kit and springs for the forks.  elka or penske triple clicker shock.  brembo radial pump master cylinder and ss lines.  

i would hit up the suspension first, but if it's just gonna be your commuter

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tahoe SC

i would hit up the suspension first, but if it's just gonna be your commuter

+1
for a 90% street 10% track bike
i would just try have the correct spring for your weight installed

50-50
i would send them to someone to get revalved and resprung.
racetech, gp suspension, ohlins (from dan kyle of course)

or if it is going to be a track bike
ohlins all the way around
25mm carts in the front and TTX shock

i recommend upgrades in this order
safety items like case covers, frame sliders, fork and axle sliders, rearsets,
suspension, brakes, power

quote:

ORIGINAL: baxsom

you would be suprised at how badly that suspsension actually does handle. 

even a revalving and respring for your exact weight would be a night and day difference. 

a full titanium system would help a lot with weight reduction which would help with cornering.  the jardine isnt going to do that.

the pc3 is a must with either a full or a slip on AND a custom map made specifically for your bike to smooth out torque and air fuel dips and spikes caused by any pipe.

wheels will help immensly. if i had that much money to spend a new set of wheels would be the first thing.  the marchichinis weigh a whole lot less than stock and every ounce of reduced rotating mass will make the bike behave so much better at speed because of the whole centrifical force thing when you try to corner.

also look into
better brake lines,
a 520 sprocket regearing will make the power you already have come on faster.

there are a lot of options, your first thing is to decide to you want something that is all power and no handling or a mixture

I actually spent some time on this bike today...put about 250 miles on it.

Here is what I found, that needs fixing or fitting I should say for my riding skills as they may be, my weight,
(almost down to 200lbs...when I can fit back into my old pairs of Wrangler, 32 waist x 36 leg jeans...I'll be at my ideal weight, which when back when I was in real shape, was about 180 lbs...5/10 and 1/2...5'11).

Anyway, this ain't no model show.

Motor:

The engine has plenty of power for me right now.

I can't imagine adding another 15-20 hp to this bike, as I believe I'd hit a highside  if I was not  paying absolute attention and being exactly precise with  my throttle  hand.

I'm already leaving more than a few rear tire black marks on the exits of the same corners, street, backroad, good tarmac,
that on my old F2, I would just brisjkly open/slide/whack open the throttle grip, tuck my head at the out of a turn and count the seconds until real power hit.

This RR has enough power to make me respect it.

I don;t fear it, and I can feel and control it, so far , but if I were to get careless, i know  the thing has enough oomph to spit me right off.

So I am thinking a more fine tuning of the power.


Suspesion wise:

This thing is set up now, to where it falls in too quickly for me, and then understeers....until I whack the throttle and the rear starts sliding, me back in the right direction, when I put it under a decent amount of anger.

Also, the fornt end feels skittish, and too twitchy.

My F2, had a very linear entry, mid-corner, was practically throwable like a rag doll in transitions, (like esees, left-right,left...etc.)

The RR....it's just too nervous everywhwre I go, even when not under power.

I nearly lost the front for a split second today in the middle of a clover leaf...doing about 60-65 mph. ]

A tar patching had something to do with it no doubt, but as many adjutments on this thing you can do and or mod,
I know there is some bump handling prowess in those forks and shock somewhere.

I am thinking the rebound damping is too much. After hard braking into an entry the front is OK as far as dive, but seems
to come up too much, too quickly thus standing the bike up, thus causing the understeer.

Does that mean any sense to any of you suspension gurus?



Based on that, wat would you suggest?

Oh, and the stock exhaust note is kind of...too quiet and too tame.

Now that I think some more...and more deeply...

The suspension needs setting up, which I have not even fiddled with much at all.

Once I get the bike handling like it should, then I'll consider adding more power...after awhile.

One other thing, is this helps anyone with some ideas and suggestions..

This bike sits very very high compared to any other bike I ave ever ridden.
I stop, and I always just put one leg down, but I'm on tip toe, 85% of the time, depending on where I am stopped.

I feel as though I am sitting on top of the bike when riding as opposed to being, in the bike.

One more thing...

This bike is going to be about 90% Track Day and the 10% street is for getting the thing set-up somewhere in the same hemisphere.

Where is Woody? He'll know what to do?

Edited see next

Maybe this?

Aka,...read the f****ing owner's manual...

I'm just guessing here based on a few rudimentary suggestions.

1. Raise the spring pre-load to give initial taughtness a head start to any bumps. Turn clockwise for firmer initial starting point.
Not to the turn in, but to the overall travel distance of the shock under high speeds and hard braking.

This should slow down that falling into the corner feeling.

2. Harden the rebound damping...again clockwise...untl it soaks up the bumps but also has enough give to let the suspension
sag and compress the tire for grip. "Tire squash and spread". Aka, enough rubber to tarmac footprint to still grip,
and not so stiff as to push the tire past it's grip points/envelope.

3. The dive on corner entrance under braking, aka the compression damping, fine as is.

But...

Might need some adjusting after I adjust the other things.

One thing affects another.

4. Match the rear pre-load to front by bouncing the bike centrally...

Both ends, fornt forks and rear spring should move about the same distance and with the same progression.

5. Set ride height.

Can this be done on a stock 2004 RR?

It's not the same as static sag is it?

If your doing mostly trackdays get the suspension set up by a professional suspension expert, there is a lot more to getting the right suspension setup and its important to have an expert with a lot of experience.  Its likely your going to need some actual suspension work before you'll get the results you want from turning nobs.  Setting the sag yourself is a good starting point but its just the beginning.
 
For track use your going to need the right springs and valving for the forks and if your going to do a lot of track riding you might as well get an aftermarket shock, again with the right spring/valving for your weight (Ohlins is badass, Penske does the same thing but isn't quite as refined.


obviously make sure the brakes and tires are good (quality and wear), a steering damper is a good thing to have (and required if you ever get into racing).  PC3 USB, rearsets, 520 conversion, and a DB windscreen (clear of course) are nice things to have on the track.  Hard case covers, Pro-Tek Spool/Sliders and frame sliders for crash protection.  Beyond that kinda stuff I'd suggest saving some $$$ to do as many trackdays as you can.

Exhausts sound cool and give you more power but for trackdays they aren't a priority modification imo.  I still have a slip-on for my F4i after a few years of being track only lol.  If you want "performance" modifications, I'd say stick with handling or maybe weight reduction (benefits both handling and acceleration)


oh btw if you want a 520 conversion and a set of Vortex frame sliders shoot me a pm, I've got a -1/+2 520 sprockets and chain and a set of Vortex frame sliders I need to get rid of (brand new, never installed)

quote:

ORIGINAL: woodyracing

1.If your doing mostly trackdays get the suspension set up by a professional suspension expert, there is a lot more to getting the right suspension setup and its important to have an expert with a lot of experience.  Its likely your going to need some actual suspension work before you'll get the results you want from turning nobs.  Setting the sag yourself is a good starting point but its just the beginning.
 
For track use your going to need the right springs and valving for the forks and if your going to do a lot of track riding you might as well get an aftermarket shock, again with the right spring/valving for your weight (Ohlins is badass, Penske does the same thing but isn't quite as refined.

What makes these aftermarket shocks, valves, springs, dampers etc. better?

The fine-tune-ability?

The consistency and reliability of the inner parts? More selection in what size springs, oil or gas holes you can use?

As far as setting something up, sure a pro the first time, or first few hundred but I want to watch, and learn then do it myself.

And yeah, track days with Ridesmart most likely, and a few with one or two new ones that seem interesting.
Eventually, I would like to try racing. Just ametuer, and that's maybe 2-4 years down the road.
And may not be in the 600 Supersport class, as I don't need the next wannabe Spies, all of 15  running rings around my ass.

quote:


obviously make sure the brakes and tires are good (quality and wear), a steering damper is a good thing to have (and required if you ever get into racing).  PC3 USB, rearsets, 520 conversion, and a DB windscreen (clear of course) are nice things to have on the track.  Hard case covers, Pro-Tek Spool/Sliders and frame sliders for crash protection.  Beyond that kinda stuff I'd suggest saving some $$$ to do as many trackdays as you can.

Exhausts sound cool and give you more power but for trackdays they aren't a priority modification imo.  I still have a slip-on for my F4i after a few years of being track only lol.  If you want "performance" modifications, I'd say stick with handling or maybe weight reduction (benefits both handling and acceleration)

I out some Galfer sintered pads on my old F2, and did not care for them. The brakes became spongy...10 seconds after installing just new pads.

EBC...right? I had a set on my ZX. And sueed them for MX back in the 79's early 80's I think.

Power Commander 3 USB?  Okay it will be internet download compatible, or maybe use a software based tool....yeah yeah.
(How it works I can look up...is it worth it is what I am needing to know)


How much fine tuning can this do as far as throttle opening % to fuel delivery on this part of this track?

Is really precise, or are they more like switch on switch off things.

I've had a fuel injected bike for lessee 6...days now. So...it's a world away from needles, jets, venturi's, and the rest.

quote:


oh btw if you want a 520 conversion and a set of Vortex frame sliders shoot me a pm, I've got a -1/+2 520 sprockets and chain and a set of Vortex frame sliders I need to get rid of (brand new, never installed)

Dude, you are too cool.

The chain on this 04 is actually kinda rusty. Actually really rusty...neglected.

If I'd seen that in the daylight, I'd have taken $100 off the price....or at least made them include some stomp grip and a cheap wheel stand for changing my own tires.

Anyway, too late now.

Bodywork is almost perfect...except for a smudge and drop of touch up paint here and there.
Like where people rub against the tank.

(PM sent in 5, 4, 3, 2, )

Then I have a coupla' more questions...