Title of a Dead Man

So last year I worked a deal by trading a 1999 R6 race bike gone street for a 2003 F4i that was cracked up from an accident. The F4i had some new/used parts on it to make it road worthy but still needed everything repaired cosmetically. Well, at the time I was happy to trade because the F4i rode fine and only needed cosmetic work, and I hated the R6 in the first place.
 
That’s peachy keen and all…well not really. The reason that the F4i was smashed up was because the owner took a corner too fast and crashed…killing himself in the process. This owner bought the bike that same year (2007) and never actually registered/titled the bike in his name (I didn’t know this at the trade last year). So the only reason that I was offered the trade was because my friend was close to the widow of the accident and she didn’t want to see the bike again. All that I cared about was getting a title in the deal, never looked to see that it was clean of signatures. I think I remember mentioning the old purchase signature but didn’t make a big deal about it. This year comes around and I want to register and insure my F4i that I have been working on...and I finally realize that I can’t transfer the title that’s signed by the guy who crashed, and on the title is from the owner that it was bought from in 2007…
 
Well, that’s great! I tried to work with the old owner and get a replacement title from him so that I could just cut out the deceased owner, and technically purchase it from the previous owner. Well that didn’t work, the DMV told him that the widow needs to pay the taxes on the purchase price and title it in her name so that she can then sell it to me…ugh! Something about title jumping LOL, anyway so I went back to the widow and let her know, she thought that the bike was titled and registered in her old husbands name, nope!
 
So now, here I am stuck in the middle of one simple semi-expensive mess. The friend that got me the bike from the widow had sold my R6 shortly after getting it and told me to try to get a “lost title” from the old owner (which I already tried). Today, I called the old owner anyway to pass the idea by him again and he’s defiantly not in on the idea at all. I let my friend know this and now he’s pissed at me because he’s under the impression that I’m pissed and that I should have done all this last year. Okay, yeah I’ll admit that I should have taken care of the title last year, but we’d still be in the same situation because of the dead owner never transferring the title and such. Also in our last contact, my friend said that he’d pay for the titling fee on his end…when he gets paid.
 
I don’t know, this has all just been adding up to a bid mess that I can’t clean up on my own. If I could pay some fee to have this title situation cleared up by myself, I would! But I’m stuck relying on a pissed off seller and a widow that is morning the 1 year anniversary of her husbands’ death on the 14th of May.
 
I’m just sick of getting the short end of the stick and wanted to rant a little on the subject and see what you guys think.

I'm lost in reading your post.
 
The original owner is now dead? Who's name is the title in? if the dead guy has his name on the title, ownership passes to the widow on death and she could easily get a replacement/reprint and then just say she sold it to you. You pay taxes on the purchase price, which you would have done anyway.

its an absolute nightmare man. I have come accross sooooo many killer deals on bikes and have passed them up one after another because of title issues such as the owner selling it signed the back and they never titled it blah blah blah. they want you to track down the original owner who you have no idea who it is in the first place.  Its just a long mess. im sure it will get solved though. just take is easy and it will come together.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MikeInCtown
The original owner is now dead? Who's name is the title in? if the dead guy has his name on the title, ownership passes to the widow on death and she could easily get a replacement/reprint and then just say she sold it to you. You pay taxes on the purchase price, which you would have done anyway.

 
The guy who died never put the title in his name, it's still in the previous owners name, and the only title is signed by the dead man. He never transfered the title or paid the tax on the purchase price.
 
I don't plan to pay any taxes because it was an even trade, so there's no income to tax...

Maybe a PM to ffingers ?
He'd be more help than I would on this one  your local law on titles is very different from ours.
Perhaps as a first step, get a sworn affidavit from the widow, stating what happened (at the appropriate time) and then approach the DMV and ask for their assistance ? Where is your old bike ? Property of the widow now ? Maybe she needs to get the bike registered in her name, and then transfer it to you - The taxes worry me though - if he didn't pay them , maybe you (or she) will be liable, but really not sure......
Best I can do, sorry.

i would go through a currency exchange when you do do it though, more things tend to sllliiiidde when you go through them.

Man.. i sold my first bike i owned under the same situation.  I sold it without ever registering it.  What i had to do was give the buyer a discount on purchase price for the amount it would have costed for me to register the bike in my name/pay taxes.  
 
Sounds like you are hosed.. and should just ask the woman to sign the title for you.. and you will more than likely have to pay all the backed up BS.. sorry.
 
 

man that font is tiny lol. Sux d00d, but it should all be able to be worked out. I know none of us like hearing it, but patience is a virtue. 

Yeah, I'm starting to see that...at least it would be outta the way then, getting them up to doing stuff seems to be like pulling teeth. I'm going to give my friend a week to see if he even puts an effort to do anything. "fingers crossed"

Well, how does WI work if you lose your title and have to have another one issued?
 
Here in OH I go to the DMV and tell them I lost my title and hand them my license. they look up the registrations and print out another copy and it gets stamped as a replacement title. I can then take that title and sign it for a sale.
 
If your state is anything like mine, just have the original ower (pay them) to get a replacement copy and sell you the bike for $500 and mark it as poor condition. you will pay tax on $500 or so, but at least it would be legal.

^ That's what I tried to do with the "previous owner"...the guy whose name the title is still in because the dead man didn't transfer the title. He's not up for that game, he doesn't want to deal with any of this, so I'm left begging the widow to finally transfer the title to her name so she can sell me the bike legally. That's more than a sour subject with her since it's for the bike that her husband died on. I hate to be "that guy" about it, but this is getting deeper than I ever imagined.
 
It could always be worse, so I'm just going to focus on my F3 in the meantime.

I don't understand why the guy doesn't want to deal with any of it. It's so freaking simple. At this point I would be calling someone at the motor vehicle department who isn't sitting at the window and explain what happened. You may need to go to court and get a judge to sign off on the transfer, but there should be a way they can tell you. good luck getting it taken care of.

Northern I don't quite understand why the previous owners being such a Dick and I do not mean the widow.  The only thing that is necessary for him to do is apply for a replacement tile and then sign the title over to you.  Have you offered some monetary gain, for his few minutes of trouble.  There is also a secondary route at least in most states to pursue this matter.  And I almost hate to say this because it always has a bad stigma about it.  It's called a bonded title, and they are not cheap old model bikes run about $100 anything above about 2000 model will run you $300 to $500 and going to the added expense of getting a lawyer to fight this simple matter in court, would be more expensive than that.
 However, there is one more option.  You can get a limited power of attorney over the motor vehicle from the widow, which would relieve her of all responsibility and other words, it gives you the right to apply for the title on her behalf.  And then sign it over to your self.  I think you can do this.  I know you can in North Carolina.  I have seen this done with those who have not returned from the sandbox

Yeah, I worked with the previous owner once already to get a replacement title, I sent him a check to cover the fees and a little extra for his time. He seemed okay with the situation and was easy to work with. When he went to the DMV, he brought the signed title with him and they put two and two together, and they wouldn't do the request because they saw the signs of a sale. So he returned my check and all the info that I mailed him. Now this time around, I can tell that he's irritated and flat out doesn't want to deal with any of it.
 
At worse case currentlly, I think that I can just give the widow whatever the costs add up to and she'll take care of her end. I'm not made of money, and they aren't either. Another reason why I'm reluctant to pay money from my pocket is because of the sale terms. I asked for a some funds to replace the tank on the F4i and my friend didn't want to put any money in the deal, so I'm taking that both ways now. I felt that I was out in the first place and am not about to just throw money at them to resolve this...all-thou that's what I see this coming to.
 
I'll look into that power of attorney some and see if that's a valid route in Wisconsin. I think that would work best for the widow so that she doesn't have to deal with any of this for her sake.

Scratch out his name and add yours. tell the DMV they were going to sell it to someone else and they flaked  so you bought it.
 
I would think the original owner would want to get that bike out of his name.

All it would take would be a couple of traffic tickets in the original owner's name to help him adjust his attitude.......

i've boughten and sold many vehicles here in cali that i never registered mainly cause i would flip them before it was time for new reg. all you need is a bill of sale and a title transfer form from the dmv. put down that you bought it for anywhere btewnee 100-1000 because the fee will be about the same and then that is all you need.
 
even if the title is in the name of the original owner, and signed for as new buyer by the decedant you just need to fill out that form from dmv and along with a bill of sale you would be fine.

the widow should fill this out http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/drivers/vehicles/title/heir.htm
then it shows she sold it to you and it should be just as good as the decedant signing things to you

Good find Havoc, I think that this is what HardCorp was dipping into. I'm going to run home at break and jot down the vin and then e-mail the DMV my info with those forms attached to see if that will cover what I need done.

quote:

Yeah, I worked with the previous owner once already to get a replacement title, I sent him a check to cover the fees and a little extra for his time. He seemed okay with the situation and was easy to work with. When he went to the DMV, he brought the signed title with him and they put two and two together, and they wouldn't do the request because they saw the signs of a sale.

 
Well that's the problem. If you want to go get a replacement title, you don't take the old one in with you.
 
BTW, your state may also have signature expirations as well which could help you. Here, if more than a year had passed from when the title got notarized (has to be for a transfer) then the signature is invalid and you have to do it again.

I'm gonna play dumb and see what the DMV offers if I lost the title from the sale. Just sent them an E-mail so I'm crossing my fingers that I can pay some fee.
 
Otherwise it may backfire by having a letter sent to the previous owner and then him blowing the situation open. I didn't include dates or names other than mine and the vin of the bike...

If all fails, make it a track bike. Good luck. Hope you get it worked out.