which cams to get?

ape racing for my f2


parrt# lift duration price
WH176 .308" .250° $565
no data for exhaust side

CBR6-201 .332" .239° $555
exhaust .308" .228°


CBR6-202 .352" .243° $340
exhaust .308" .228°



right away i know i have to call them about part #WH176 and the exhaust side, i got that from the website

the data on the 201-202 parts i got from a local shop, but the book they got it out of said it was from APE also, now when i bought cams for my car, i bought what everyone else had, it made my car faster, so i dont really know all the math that goes into cams, i just know what happens when you go too agressive, so the ones that are listed above are specified as direct drop-ins, no need for high compression pistons, or valve springs

why are the -202 so much cheaper then the 201?

my goal is to be able to keep up with newer bikes on the track, so im not worried about top speed

EDIT: i will be using a dyno to check overall gains, and i want to do it right.. also considering timing advancement

All of APE's cams are from Web Cam Inc.  They take stock cams, weld them up and re-grind them.
Here's the website with the actaul specs:  WEB CAM INC F2-F3 CAM specs
 
While the cams will help, they're not going to give you the same power as a 600RR without additional motor work... milled head, Setting the cam timing, porting, valves, correct jetting, etc... and by the time you do all that you could afford a newer bike and them some.
 
Are you looking to "keep up" with newer bikes, or are you really looking to keep up with better riders on the track?  Becuase the bike doesn't make the rider, the rider makes the bike.  If you really want to be faster, take a few racing schools (not an intro to the track school, but a real racing school) You'll drop you lap times by much larger chunks of times than any bolt-on ever will.

any idea which cams will yeild the most HP/Torque gain?

quote:

ORIGINAL: keithacole
any idea which cams will yeild the most HP/Torque gain?

 
Where do you want to make your HP & TQ?   Lower, Mid range, or up top in the RPM range?
Also is your bike a 49 state bike or a Calif bike?
 
I would call WEB CAM and talk to them as they will be able to tell you.

cams aren't for stock motors.  they are not bolt on power..  cams are just a compliment to numerous other modifications/machining
 
it's like a 3" exhaust on a n/a motor for a car... pointless unless u have a turbo.. thus cams are pointless unless u have higher cr, port work, etc.

quote:

cams aren't for stock motors.  they are not bolt on power..  cams are just a compliment to numerous other modifications/machining

it's like a 3" exhaust on a n/a motor for a car... pointless unless u have a turbo.. thus cams are pointless unless u have higher cr, port work, etc.

not exactly.

there are cams that are "bolt on" power, when manufactures produce an engine they dont have power as the #1 factor on there list, most of the time its "fuel consumption and emissions" so if you start changning out parts that go against this then you tend to cheat a little more power out of your motor

in your example you used a 3" exhaust on a n/a motor. your right you will probably lose power in that scenario,  because of the loss of backpressure the volicity the exhaust gas travel is slower, but if your car had a stock 1" pipe on there and you changed it out for a 2" pipe you may increase power by letting the engine breath better

i swapped out the cams in my last car, had to bump up the fuel pressure, and along with my other mods i already had.. it was a direct bolt-on horse power increase.


now if there is anyone else that can give me a dyno chart of anyone of these cams vs stock cams along with the rest of there setup.. i would greatly appreciate it, until then i will be doing more research on how cams work, and the specs on our stock cams to see what will suite me more

quote:

ORIGINAL: keithacole

quote:

cams aren't for stock motors.  they are not bolt on power..  cams are just a compliment to numerous other modifications/machining

it's like a 3" exhaust on a n/a motor for a car... pointless unless u have a turbo.. thus cams are pointless unless u have higher cr, port work, etc.

not exactly.

there are cams that are "bolt on" power, when manufactures produce an engine they dont have power as the #1 factor on there list, most of the time its "fuel consumption and emissions" so if you start changning out parts that go against this then you tend to cheat a little more power out of your motor

in your example you used a 3" exhaust on a n/a motor. your right you will probably lose power in that scenario,  because of the loss of backpressure the volicity the exhaust gas travel is slower, but if your car had a stock 1" pipe on there and you changed it out for a 2" pipe you may increase power by letting the engine breath better

i swapped out the cams in my last car, had to bump up the fuel pressure, and along with my other mods i already had.. it was a direct bolt-on horse power increase.


now if there is anyone else that can give me a dyno chart of anyone of these cams vs stock cams along with the rest of there setup.. i would greatly appreciate it, until then i will be doing more research on how cams work, and the specs on our stock cams to see what will suite me more

you are partially right. it is not the loss of backpressure that causes the gas velocity to slow down it is the fact that the gas expands so much sideways as straight that it is coming from the exhaust manifold faster than it can get out of the tail pipe.
ideally no backpressure is perfect but finding the balance gas velocity and pipe size is difficult. 
that is why pipes tend to gradually get smaller as they leave the engine. the venturi effect causes the gas to speed up.  yes it causes back pressure as a side effect but in the perfect size pipe, the gas would be leaving just as fast as it comes in.  i posted up like 15 resources once on why no backpressure is ideal but yet people still hold to that old theory that back pressure is good.

excellent peice of info

/me googles "define:venturi effect"

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=TOG&q=define%3Aventuri+effect&btnG=Search

quote:



i swapped out the cams in my last car, had to bump up the fuel pressure, and along with my other mods i already had.. it was a direct bolt-on horse power increase.

 
that proves my point.. you had to do additional tuning.. not to mention you already had other mods before u installed the cams..
 
swappin' in cams into a completely stock bike will see a loss of power...
 
either way cams are pretty pointless on a bike that isn't raced religiously.  you're better off gettin' a slipper clutch.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sickz

quote:



i swapped out the cams in my last car, had to bump up the fuel pressure, and along with my other mods i already had.. it was a direct bolt-on horse power increase.

that proves my point.. you had to do additional tuning.. not to mention you already had other mods before u installed the cams..

swappin' in cams into a completely stock bike will see a loss of power...

either way cams are pretty pointless on a bike that isn't raced religiously. you're better off gettin' a slipper clutch.

did you ever read the original question? how are you helping me decide what cams to get?

thanks for your attempts to help

quote:

ORIGINAL: keithacole

my goal is to be able to keep up with newer bikes on the track, so im not worried about top speed

yes i read what you posted.. and i was addressin' this...

you're fighting a losing battle dumpin' money into an f2 motor to achieve comparable horsepower/torque to modern 600s.

find other ways to lower your laptimes... like jason's suggestion on attendin' a school... or if u would like a part for your bike.. the best mod you can on any track bike is a slipper clutch, you can make up time on corner entries by having one.

but it's your bike, do what makes happy.