First Crotch rocket
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First Crotch rocket - 6/14/2006 3:56:23 AM
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bcghawk
Posts: 3
Joined: 6/14/2006
Status: offline
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Oh boy,
I hate posting on forums, even a site like this probably has one or two forum trolls. Y'know the type; somebody who has nothing to do all day but type away at a noobs post and try to make him feel bad. If you are one of those types, please, go take it out on your wife or your kids or something.
Here's my story I made the mistake of all riders mistakes. I bought a 600rr as my first crotch rocket. Now I've done my stint on a roadbike and I've done a lot of dirtbiking so this isn't my first motorcycle. But it IS my first super sport bike.
It's also the first bike I've owned that I actually cared if I did some pavement surfing on. I don't have too many questions about the topic.
I mainly keep to my comfort zones while riding- Back roads and alleyways and parking lots. And some of the adjustments in transition I've learned to overcome. Like the mule kick of hitting a pothole and having a deathgrip on the throttle.
I could use some advice on parking lot cornering. I need about the length and width of a car to make a 90 degree turn on the bike. Seems like other riders need the length and width of a car tire. My guess is I'm leaning in wrong but I don't like to lean at slow speeds and if I throttle on I always seem to overshoot into some nastiness -like oncoming traffic and whatnot- some advice here would be appreciated so long as it's constructive.
Also, as an opening question, why does this particular bike bring out the stupid in other motorists? I've had this bike 2 years I've gotten pulled over twice already and have been told that my plastic license plate holder is rubbing on my rear tire. Which btw is not the case the stock holder is fine. I've been merged into once. And gotten a "love tap" from the rear at a stoplight from a soccer mom. My old POS bike -when it ran- attracted none of this negative attention at all. I'm willing to take credit as a medium-to-crappy rider for my own mistakes bringing out the aggressiveness in other motorists, but in these last listed cases I was sitting at at a red stoplight. The ridiculous tailgating on two lane roads I'll claim as my own fault being that I only drive the speed limit and hang out in the slow lane, but still most times the fast lane is clear.
So there's my story for human and forum troll alike to read and enjoy. But if your a forum troll, please, go outside and ride. That is assuming if your on this site you have one.
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RE: First Crotch rocket - 6/14/2006 4:32:47 AM
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dragonium25
Posts: 1109
Joined: 4/12/2006
Status: offline
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Use you rear brake while giving a bit of throttle for low speed turns and maneuvering. Takes practice to get good at controlling the bike at low speeds, that and good balance. You don't need to really lean in either, just turn the steering. If you lean too much you're gonna fall over because you're not going fast enough to keep the bike up.
And just so you know, buying a 600rr, first bike or not, is never a mistake. As for cagers, they're stupid whether you're on a bike or not, you just notice them more, and them you less. You probably don't notice half the stupid things other drivers do while driving because you've got a coffee in one hand, while talking on your cell phone, with the stereo turned up too high .
Hope this helps, ride safe.
_____________________________
"To defeat the dragon within, you must defeat the dragon without"
'05 600RR Black/Tribal
Framesliders
Scorpio i500 alarm
Puig DB smoke
CA tail light
8000K HIDs
Custom FE & Meshing
Watsen Design LEDs
2Bros M2 slip-on
PCIIIUSB
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RE: First Crotch rocket - 6/14/2006 4:55:52 AM
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dwhite645
Posts: 1989
Joined: 1/21/2006
From: OldFatGuy's garage - stealing parts
Status: offline
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For slow speed turning, I prefer to give it no throttle at all and slip the clutch if needed to maintain a steady speed. Your best bet is to practice making full, tight turn circles in an empty parking lot at night. With practice, you'll be able to turn a 360 with the bars locked all the way one way or the other. Also practice figure 8's in a lot. It'll help too. Since you're experienced, you should be able to pick it up in no time.
As for other motorists, yeah, there's some real imbeciles out there. Just wait until you pull up to a light next to a car full of teenagers and they want you to do a wheelie.
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RE: First Crotch rocket - 6/14/2006 6:31:37 AM
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HighRevver
Posts: 792
Joined: 11/26/2005
Status: offline
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like dwhite said, go practice figure 8's in a parking lot or in a closed street and use the clutch it will help you out alot.
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RE: First Crotch rocket - 6/14/2006 6:40:35 PM
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Ronintas
Posts: 62
Joined: 4/27/2006
Status: offline
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Great to here I wasnt the only 1 with this problem, low speed turning,,, I used to want to put training wheels on when I knew I was going into an area where I would need to turn slowly , I used to just about drag my foot on the ground in case I fell , but as they say practice makes near perfect. a couple of days at the figure *'s n you'll be fine
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RE: First Crotch rocket - 6/14/2006 8:04:57 PM
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Fretless33
Posts: 1007
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
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For a low speed turn, like a u-turn you actually have to lean the opposite way of the turn, otherwise you'll loose your balance...
Get the book by Lee Parks called Total Control because it covers all the basics like this and with step by step techniques too...
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RE: First Crotch rocket - 6/14/2006 9:37:08 PM
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steviestyles
Posts: 10
Joined: 6/7/2006
Status: offline
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I would recommend a MSF course, they will teach you exactly how to do that. First thing you should never do if possible is to hit your brakes in the middle of a turn.....bad advice. To slow your bike down pull the clutch, but you should always slow down before engaging a turn and accelerate during the apex (crest) of the turn. And with that it should be a slow steady accel, too much and you might eat turf.
For a slow tight turn, you should do what is called counter steering, if you have experience with dirt bikes like you said than this should be something you've done. Basically if you're turning right turn your handle bars right, and lean your body left by putting weight down on your right foot peg. The trick is to keep your speed up, cause if you going to slow the bike will want to fall over. (if you'r familiar with skiing, it' how slalom racers turn, as well as skiing moguls) The reverse is true if your going left. Also remeber wherever you're looking is where you'ge going to go, so if you're making a sharp turn, turn your head all the way to where you want to turn, keeping your head up. Hope this helps, the MSF course really did help me regarding this.
< Message edited by steviestyles -- 6/15/2006 5:47:41 AM >
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RE: First Crotch rocket - 6/15/2006 2:48:30 AM
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bcghawk
Posts: 3
Joined: 6/14/2006
Status: offline
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Thanks for the advice everybody I'll go give the parking lot a run for it's money tonight.
As for counterbalance turning; I'd always assumed that skill was solely for weaving through lines of orange cones; I'll give it a shot. I have taken a msf course from instructors with over 18 years of Harley riding experience - in regards to my situation they've "looked at a crotchrocket once." ; Kansas is not the greatest melting pot. The other 10 students in my class and myself became exemplary harley riders.
Perhaps I was a bit to emphatic on my dirtbike experience, I've spent equal amounts of time on my back in the sand as I've had riding. But even in those circumstances the steering bar on a little 125 and even my old Yamaha POS 550 are a little more forgiving for road turns.
But your all mostly right. I have a tendency to concentrate a little too hard on the dumpster I'm going to run into and then very nearly run into it. I'll have to remember to look where I turn.
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RE: First Crotch rocket - 6/15/2006 5:45:35 AM
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steviestyles
Posts: 10
Joined: 6/7/2006
Status: offline
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Yeah I thought counter steering was for swerving too, but the instructors kept drilling that it's for slow speed sharp turns...leans are for fast turns. A parking lot is a good place to be. I'd definitely rather put my bike on it's side there than some unfimiliar piece of road. Good luck.....
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RE: First Crotch rocket - 6/15/2006 8:31:03 AM
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ashsammy
Posts: 121
Joined: 2/2/2006
From: Dubai, UAE.
Status: offline
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for parking lot cornering, practice the 8 shape turn, simply go on idle speed on a figure of 8, round and round till you get dizzy... i did it for 2 weeks in the driving school, and it was in the test for the license, it really helps... you sould be able to go in rounds on idle speed with the handle bar crossed. it's better if you can mark the ground and practice avoiding going into or out of the circle, or making uneven turns.
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RE: First Crotch rocket - 6/15/2006 4:20:31 PM
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zzz11
Posts: 37
Joined: 5/28/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: steviestyles
First thing you should never do if possible is to hit your brakes in the middle of a turn.....bad advice. To slow your bike down pull the clutch...
To slow down in a turn, pull the clutch???? If you're talking about a normal (i.e. non-parking lot turn), this is plain wrong, and potentially dangerous.
If you're talking about slow turns, What's wrong with using your brakes to slow down?? (especially your rear brakes).
quote:
ORIGINAL: steviestyles
For a slow tight turn, you should do what is called counter steering, if you have experience with dirt bikes like you said than this should be something you've done. Basically if you're turning right turn your handle bars right...
quote:
ORIGINAL: steviestyles
Yeah I thought counter steering was for swerving too, but the instructors kept drilling that it's for slow speed sharp turns...leans are for fast turns.
Ummm.. huh? You have any idea what counter steering really is?
Z.
< Message edited by zzz11 -- 6/15/2006 4:22:19 PM >
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RE: First Crotch rocket - 6/15/2006 5:23:00 PM
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steviestyles
Posts: 10
Joined: 6/7/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zzz11
To slow down in a turn, pull the clutch???? If you're talking about a normal (i.e. non-parking lot turn), this is plain wrong, and potentially dangerous.
If you're talking about slow turns, What's wrong with using your brakes to slow down?? (especially your rear brakes).
Ummm.. huh? You have any idea what counter steering really is?
Z.
Ok to reiterate, I just finished an advanced riding course...here's the scoop. Pulling in the clutch does what????? It removes power from the wheels which in any case will slow you down. If you're in the middle of a turn what happens when you hit your brakes, the traction you need to slow down the tires isn't there, because the traction is being used for cornering. The proper way to slow down in a turn is to slow down to a decent speed before you enter the turn.....with that once you enter the apex of the turn you apply slow steady throttle. Counter stering as describe before is leaning your bike into the turn, while keeping your body up to keep the bike from falling over, this is used in slow tight turns. You lean, when you are doing a higher speed turn...i.e over 20 miles an hour. The original question was how do you do a tight turn in a parking lot.I'm asuming since he's talking about doing slow speed circles, he's not going above 20ph. zzz11 this information I posted is not techniques I made up, it is proven skills taught at any MSF course. Feel free to check into it. The worst thing a new rider can get is bad advice from someone else, plus it creates bad riding habits. I'm not sure how long you've been riding or if you've taking riding course. Most people tend to have a friend teach them how to ride, not a professional. The proper, and safe way to stop a bike in a turn is to square the handle bars, meaning the bike is upright, and then applying both front and back brakes.
If you apply your brakes in the middle of a turn it can cause either a High Side crash, if the rear wheel lock up, locking up the front brake will cause a low side fall. Again this is not info I made up. The worst thing anyone can do for a new rider is give them bad advice that turn into bad habits which lead to potential crashes. Accidents aren't caused, we fail to mange factors properly that leads to crashes. By no means am I an expert, but I have put the time in to learn proper fundamentals to ride motorcycles.
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RE: First Crotch rocket - 6/15/2006 8:42:13 PM
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zzz11
Posts: 37
Joined: 5/28/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: steviestyles
Ok to reiterate, I just finished an advanced riding course...here's the scoop. Pulling in the clutch does what????? It removes power from the wheels which in any case will slow you down. If you're in the middle of a turn what happens when you hit your brakes, the traction you need to slow down the tires isn't there, because the traction is being used for cornering. The proper way to slow down in a turn is to slow down to a decent speed before you enter the turn.....with that once you enter the apex of the turn you apply slow steady throttle. Counter stering as describe before is leaning your bike into the turn, while keeping your body up to keep the bike from falling over, this is used in slow tight turns. You lean, when you are doing a higher speed turn...i.e over 20 miles an hour. The original question was how do you do a tight turn in a parking lot.I'm asuming since he's talking about doing slow speed circles, he's not going above 20ph. zzz11 this information I posted is not techniques I made up, it is proven skills taught at any MSF course. Feel free to check into it. The worst thing a new rider can get is bad advice from someone else, plus it creates bad riding habits. I'm not sure how long you've been riding or if you've taking riding course. Most people tend to have a friend teach them how to ride, not a professional. The proper, and safe way to stop a bike in a turn is to square the handle bars, meaning the bike is upright, and then applying both front and back brakes.
If you apply your brakes in the middle of a turn it can cause either a High Side crash, if the rear wheel lock up, locking up the front brake will cause a low side fall. Again this is not info I made up. The worst thing anyone can do for a new rider is give them bad advice that turn into bad habits which lead to potential crashes. Accidents aren't caused, we fail to mange factors properly that leads to crashes. By no means am I an expert, but I have put the time in to learn proper fundamentals to ride motorcycles.
No offense, but I think you were snoozing during the class.
So you're talking about using the clutch to slow down in a high speed turn??? It does NOT slow you down. It makes your bike COAST. Eventually you might slow down, but not right away. Now if you need to re-engage your clutch to maneouver your bike (which you will), you better be darn sure you match the rpm perfectly. Even then, you're bikes physics are totally messed up at this point. Pulling in the clutch in a lean during a high speed turn to "slow down" is dumb. You might be confusing it with feathering the clutch to maneouver in a slow speed (parking lot) turn.
Now for your definition of counter steering :
"Counter stering as describe before is leaning your bike into the turn, while keeping your body up to keep the bike from falling over, this is used in slow tight turns. You lean, when you are doing a higher speed turn...i.e over 20 miles an hour. "
You also mentioned (from before) :
"Basically if you're turning right turn your handle bars right"
Wrong.. wrong.
Counter-steering is turning your handle-bar in the opposite direction of the turn (PUSH right, GO right). This causes your bike to momentatily turn in one direction, forcing the bike to "drop" the other direction (thanks to centrifugal force). This allows you to lean to turn at higher speeds (it's pretty much the only way to get your bike to lean at high speeds).
It's NOT used to turn tight in parking lot speeds. And you DON'T lean the opposite direction to stop the bike from falling while counter steering.
Again, I think your confusing this with "counter balancing" the bike in tight turns (shift weight to the opposite side of the bike to prevent it from falling while leaning into a turn).
Dunno how you passed the class.
Z.
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