Cooling issues - thermostat, temp. sensor, or??!
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Cooling issues - thermostat, temp. sensor, or??! - 7/13/2006 1:55:37 PM
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ruizs
Posts: 53
Joined: 10/2/2005
Status: offline
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Hi All -
I've been having some cooling issues with my '02 F4i lately, and can't seem to get it fixed. The bike is running very hot, its usually around 200 F when I'm riding at 80mph on the freeway. It used to work well, around 185 on the freeway, but it seems like now I can't keep it under 200. The radiator looks good, holds water, no leaks, pressure tested. I also just replaced the thermostat (what a bitch!), and that didn't seem to solve the problem either. I did notice a bit of gunk in a ring around the bottom of the thermostat housing, could this be causing it to stay closed? Could the water pump not be working?
Also, my fan isn't kicking in until the bike reaches ~237 F or so... I'm guessing its the temperature sensor for the fan, but I want to make sure I'm looking at the correct part. On the online schematic, it looks like it goes on the left side of the radiator.
Please help, i want to start riding again! Thanks
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RE: Cooling issues - thermostat, temp. sensor, or??! - 7/13/2006 3:25:17 PM
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Tahoe SC
Posts: 5915
Joined: 8/24/2005
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hey mang...i had the same issue as you.
the pump is fine. you could have a blockage or an air bubble.
you need to clean your system out real good. do 50/50 mix distilled water and white (distilled) vinegar. The car flushing stuff is too strong for the seals, etc inside the cooling system.
so use the 50/50 mix for the flush. just put it in, let it run up past 180 and then drain it...or if you like, ride the bike around the block some more then drain.
this is the thing...bear with me...
the fan trigger switch is located on the left side of the radiator, furtherst away from the inflow. the temp sensor is located just beneath the t-stat, at the rear of the block. the trigger switch is supposed to complete the circuit somewhere around 220-228 degrees. so what's happening is that there's a big delay between the core area reaching 225 vs. when the temp sensor reads 225. this is most likely due to bad coolant, or obstructions/air bubble in the system located between the t-stat and radiator.
you check this you can run without your t-stat and watch, it'll take awhile to get to temp but once it reaches temps, the same thing will happen, so you'll know it's not your t-stast...
as for the water pump...if you take it apart, you'll see that it's directly connected to a shaft that turns with the tranny (i believe). so it's always turning! in order for it not to work, either that shaft has busted or the fan blades in the pump have busted off, both of which are HIGHLY unlikely unless you've crashed it.
also check to see if the temp spikes up and down...if it does...it could be an indication that there's air in they system or the coolant is boiling. also, check the rubber seal on your radiator cap...make sure it's still good...if it looks a bit worn, flip it over and reuse or get a new one.
Good luck!
_____________________________
Admit it...you love my siggy...
"Let the ignorance die with the ignorant" - Tahoe SC
bye bye F4i!
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RE: Cooling issues - thermostat, temp. sensor, or??! - 7/13/2006 4:52:39 PM
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ruizs
Posts: 53
Joined: 10/2/2005
Status: offline
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I will give the vinegar a try - I'm waiting on a new rubber seal for the thermostat from the dealer... Stupid me, the manual says to be sure to install a new one, but I figure it'll be fine, put everything back together, and of course its leaking from the thermostat. Lesson learned, now that I have to do the whole thing over again.
Thanks for all the help. One more question - is ther any other coolant to use in our bikes? I always make a trip to the dealer to get the honda HP stuff, but I'd love to be able to go to my local parts store and grab something else. I just don't want anything that will eat away at my seals / has the wrong additives.
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RE: Cooling issues - thermostat, temp. sensor, or??! - 7/13/2006 6:36:22 PM
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Tahoe SC
Posts: 5915
Joined: 8/24/2005
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you can run Engine Ice, stuff racers use...50/50 mix...
or you can run distilled water and water wetter (only need like 3-4 capfuls).
_____________________________
Admit it...you love my siggy...
"Let the ignorance die with the ignorant" - Tahoe SC
bye bye F4i!
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RE: Cooling issues - thermostat, temp. sensor, or??! - 7/16/2006 7:42:32 PM
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ruizs
Posts: 53
Joined: 10/2/2005
Status: offline
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Thanks for the help - put some vinegar in, let it run, flushed it out a few times w/ distilled H20, and its running great. Staying around 184 - 185 in the So Cal heat :)
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RE: Cooling issues - thermostat, temp. sensor, or??! - 7/17/2006 8:53:38 AM
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steve00ses
Posts: 425
Joined: 1/31/2006
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well i am having similar problems where i got up to 231 on a hot day. but it was always fine untill i installl my exhaust and power commander. is it possible to just get air in the system even if it been fine for like 3500 miles?
_____________________________
2006 cbr600RR orange with black tribal.
Yoshimura Full Titanium Rs5
Power Commander III
K&n air filter, Engine Ice
Watson Design Front LED Blinkers
Rear Fender Eliminator Kit, by 1tail
Vortex Framesliders
Orange rimtape,
HID 6000k, MOD-Ex
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RE: Cooling issues - thermostat, temp. sensor, or??! - 7/17/2006 1:35:57 PM
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ruizs
Posts: 53
Joined: 10/2/2005
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Did it just get up to 231 once or twice? What's your normal temp on the freeway? Did the fan come on and bring down the temp?
These bikes run hot, and that's not so bad on a hot day if it comes back down. I wouldn't expect a new bike w/ 3500 mi to need coolant service.
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RE: Cooling issues - thermostat, temp. sensor, or??! - 7/17/2006 2:17:41 PM
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steve00ses
Posts: 425
Joined: 1/31/2006
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fan always kicks on at 220..umm yeah it was once..but driving it seems to be around 185..but sometimes i'll look down and have been moving for awhile...and its at like 215..and im like wtf im not even beatiing on it
_____________________________
2006 cbr600RR orange with black tribal.
Yoshimura Full Titanium Rs5
Power Commander III
K&n air filter, Engine Ice
Watson Design Front LED Blinkers
Rear Fender Eliminator Kit, by 1tail
Vortex Framesliders
Orange rimtape,
HID 6000k, MOD-Ex
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RE: Cooling issues - thermostat, temp. sensor, or??! - 7/17/2006 3:37:08 PM
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Tahoe SC
Posts: 5915
Joined: 8/24/2005
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in hot weather, stuck at a light, it can get up to 230 plus...but don't worry unless when you're stuck in traffic the temp keeps rising even with the fan on.
steveo, your bike is fine.
_____________________________
Admit it...you love my siggy...
"Let the ignorance die with the ignorant" - Tahoe SC
bye bye F4i!
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RE: Cooling issues - thermostat, temp. sensor, or??! - 7/18/2006 2:50:59 AM
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ruizs
Posts: 53
Joined: 10/2/2005
Status: offline
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My bike is running great, but the fan is still coming on around 235+ (I had to let it sit and idle for a good while to get it up to that temp). What part(s) exactly control at what temp. the fan comes on? It does kick in, but by the time it gets to 240, it has a hard time bringing temps back down.
I'm guessing I'll need a new one, but the terms fan switch and fan sensor get thrown around a lot.
Thermostat schematic
Over here on the thermostat page, there's part # 11 and #21 - I can't tell where either of them go physically on the bike, and 11 isn't even listed for purchase.
Radiator Schematic
over here on the radiator page, there's part #19 that's listed as thermostat switch...
Which one is gonna help me?
thanks
-Steve
< Message edited by ruizs -- 7/18/2006 2:52:23 AM >
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RE: Cooling issues - thermostat, temp. sensor, or??! - 7/18/2006 12:36:02 PM
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Tahoe SC
Posts: 5915
Joined: 8/24/2005
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well...my experience is that sensors usually don't malfunction like that, they usually work or they don't work.
it's possible that the switch has some gunk on it (mine did when i took it off) preventing it from reading actual temps and causing a delay. this could also be the case at the sensor end as well...making it read hotter than it actually is.
it's a toss up...i had the same issue, i switched everything...bike still runs a bit hot but prior to, the readings were bouncing up and down, indicative of air bubbles in the system or a boiling system.
_____________________________
Admit it...you love my siggy...
"Let the ignorance die with the ignorant" - Tahoe SC
bye bye F4i!
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RE: Cooling issues - thermostat, temp. sensor, or??! - 7/18/2006 4:58:54 PM
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ruizs
Posts: 53
Joined: 10/2/2005
Status: offline
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Hmm... ok - had some jumping temps before, but its very stable now - think i got all the bubbles out. Could definitely be gunk, I'll try taking the switch out next coolant flush (in a couple days, want to get all that vinegar out). The sensor, not so good.. isn't it over by the thermostat somewhere?
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RE: Cooling issues - thermostat, temp. sensor, or??! - 7/18/2006 5:17:04 PM
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Tahoe SC
Posts: 5915
Joined: 8/24/2005
Status: offline
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yea it sits right below it to the brake side.
cooling issues suck...because you have to diagnose it one by one until you get it all.
_____________________________
Admit it...you love my siggy...
"Let the ignorance die with the ignorant" - Tahoe SC
bye bye F4i!
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RE: Cooling issues - thermostat, temp. sensor, or??! - 7/31/2006 2:35:29 AM
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ruizs
Posts: 53
Joined: 10/2/2005
Status: offline
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Argh! Still having problems with my damn cooling system.
Now, it seems that the thermostat isn't opening until 205 F... Or at least that's what the reading on the dash says. And, the fan isn't coming on anymore at all - i let the bike idle for quite a while, and nothing. I did connect a wire from the fan switch connector to the engine block, and the fan came right on, so its most likely the fan switch on the radiator.
So, the symptoms: Bike stays around 205 F. on the freeway, higher around town. I let the bike warm up with the radiator cap off, and coolant doesn't seem to start flowing until 205 F., i.e. the thermostat doesn't open until then.
What I've tried to fix it:
- Flushed the system very thoroughly with a mix of distilled vinegar & water, as suggested. Then flushed thoroughly with distilled water
- Checked the thermostat (its 2 weeks old) with a boiling pot of water and a candy thermometer, seems to be within spec (opens somewhere around 185 F)
- Removed the fan switch and ECT (temp. sensor in the thermostat housing) and cleaned them both. Both had some gunk on them, but not excessive
- Filled system with a mix of distilled water and water wetter
- Let the bike idel for a long time, until the reading on the dash said 248 F!! I can't nec. trust the reading, but the bike did seam really hot, and when i turned it off, there was a lot of boiling over into the overflow tank that i could hear (which leads me to believe the bike was actually at a really high temp)
What is left to do? I can't figure this out for the life of me, and its the fourth time i've torn everything off so i could get to the thermostat assembly, I'm close to taking this thing in to a mechanic.... please help! :(
< Message edited by ruizs -- 7/31/2006 2:36:38 AM >
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RE: Cooling issues - thermostat, temp. sensor, or??! - 7/31/2006 12:42:38 PM
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Tahoe SC
Posts: 5915
Joined: 8/24/2005
Status: offline
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hey...run without the thermostat and see what the temp readings say, etc...actually this is probably the first thing you should've done. it'll take a long time to get up to temp, but once it does, everything should be running normal...if not then you know it's not the t-stat and then can search to see what the issue is...but as cooling system diagnosis goes, it's piece by piece mang! if you're up to it, you can take apart the water pump to see what's up with it, but make sure you get all the things you need as far as gaskets/o-rings for it.
if t-stat isn't opening until 205, either there's likely a bubble sitting there or it's not working. i know you just changed it right?
T
_____________________________
Admit it...you love my siggy...
"Let the ignorance die with the ignorant" - Tahoe SC
bye bye F4i!
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