RE: ADVICE PLEASE: 600 or 1000?
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RE: ADVICE PLEASE: 600 or 1000? - 8/17/2006 4:12:27 PM
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1000rrarmyguy
Posts: 37
Joined: 8/4/2006
From: Cleveland, Ohio
Status: offline
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My CBR 1000RR is my 5th bike. I started on a 600cc bike. I would say that the 600s are a bit more forgiving if you make a an error in throttle application. I have recommended to friends that that is the route they take on their first bike. When your tired of it/ grown out of it the dealer will take it as a trade in. What ever your decision I strongly recommed practicing the MSF drills in a parking lot. Also find a nice deserted patch of pavement, to really get to know your bike. THe best advice I ever got is assume every idiot in a car is going to get in your way, so never let your guard down. Good luck and enjoy the ride!
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RE: ADVICE PLEASE: 600 or 1000? - 8/17/2006 6:07:09 PM
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AZ1000rr
Posts: 428
Joined: 5/17/2006
Status: offline
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1st let's remember the question: 600 or 1krr....not any CBR okay for a new rider....
ZZZ1...do you even own a bike? I own the 06 1krr, hence i'd being willing to bet i am more qualified to talk about than you. I really don't know why guys like you and the TexASS even want to play point counter point on this subject, simply put, in order to know what your are talking about, you have had to ridden both bikes...and maybe actually owning a bike would be helpful. I have also been lucky enough to have ridden the 600rr extensively, on the track, so when i say IMO its a great track bike, that is exactly what it is. The 1krr is an easier bike to ride, period. Part of why is it's stability, due in great part the the HESD, its almost too stable, causing it not to be flickable like the 600, making a more experience rider like me actually consider trading the HESD for a scotts or ohlins with some adjustment so it is easier to turn at speed; flickable is great for an experienced rider, but not so great for a novice. And if you've ridden either bike there brainiac, you'd know that they are both explosively fast, hence the 600 is not safer to ride...and you really must be afraid of the liter bike if you think that its the bike moreover than the rider.... and you guys act like the 1krr has an 1/8 turn throttle, while i will say its not a bright idea to pin the throttle in the lower gears, it really isn't that touchy, no more so than any other modern sport bike. everybody really needs to wake up....it is possible to ride a 1krr and obey all traffic laws and all the skills you learned in your MSF class. Every time someone asks this question, the same thing happens, a few say 1krr, a few say 600rr; all the 1krr ney sayers pipe up that the 1krr is just too dangerous....and get the 600rr....do you have any idea how stupid that sounds?....do you really think that you are less likely to crash on a 600rr vs a 1krr? taking your 1,2,3 & 4 theory to the test....do you really think that 4 is any less of an issue on the 600rr? Bottom line, as its been said over and over again, neither bike is really the 'best' choice for a beginner, but that doesn't seem to stop people from buying them, and I personally find the 600rr racier, easier to wheelie on and stunt, and harder to drive slow than the 1krr....which IMO makes the 600rr harder to ride safely on the street...I really think that most people who have actually ridden both would agree...but if they don't, at least they are basing their comments on their personal experience and not speculation and conjecture from reading too many magazines and wanting to play devil's advocate with those that really do know what they are talking about....it really is the rider....but i guess you'd actually have to be one to know that...so sorry for blasting you...bottom line for any new rider....buy the bike you like and are comfortable on, and take your time learning to ride it...and anyone regardless of skill can crash as many times it's not the riders fault, but know that if you get on ANY bike and ride like a squid, or are scared to death of the bike, you are asking for trouble.
PS...
And before you go and assume that I am myself a novice, please know that I am 42 and have been riding sport bikes for more than 25 years and also know my 1krr has much more than 1000 miles on it...
< Message edited by AZ1000rr -- 8/17/2006 6:25:22 PM >
_____________________________
Fear causes hesitation, and hesitation will cause your biggest fears to come true
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RE: ADVICE PLEASE: 600 or 1000? - 8/17/2006 7:21:53 PM
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YellowJacket1000RR
Posts: 68
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline
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Folks, let's not pump up the blood pressure here. Let's try to keep the conversation respectful and not assume things about each other, or read negative thoughts into what each other says.
I think everyone here has been thoughtful and accurate, but I also sense that the arguments here are operating at cross purposes.
Mark Deckard was asking about a 1000RR that a friend had... but the nature of his question and his lack of experience also implies that he is open to alternatives, and not just alternatives between a 1000RR and a 600RR.
My experience tells me that a sport bike, any sport bike, is by definition not a beginner bike. I didn't start on a sport bike. And lastly, I think that most people cannot start on a sport bike without getting themselves into trouble on the street. Spend some time and some cheep money on a used 'standard' bike or something light and low horse-powered while you train your muscle memory to get the reflexes needed to dodge the cell-phone-soccer-moms... and then when that's down pat... go up from there. Is there anything wrong with that program?
I do the same thing when training my students on radio controlled planes in our R/C club: beginner planes have tricycle landing gear, a high-wing airfoil, a flatbottomed wing, and a moderate or even slightly underpowered engine. It's theoretically possible for someone to learn how to fly in an inverted-gullwing-Corsair, with a symetrical-flow wing, and short-moment elevators and rudder, with an engine generating a thrust-to-weight ratio greater than one... but it's REALLY HARD. Beginners just don't have the reflexes to get out of trouble with that configuration. And reflexes is what counts, not thinking your way out of danger. You haven't got time to think your way out of danger with a radio controlled airplane.
I think the same applies to motorcycles on the street.
< Message edited by YellowJacket1000RR -- 8/17/2006 7:26:19 PM >
_____________________________
2006 CBR1000RR Stock
Yes, I said STOCK.
Let me know when I'm outperforming my bike and need to race tune it.
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RE: ADVICE PLEASE: 600 or 1000? - 8/18/2006 3:35:38 AM
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zzz11
Posts: 37
Joined: 5/28/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AZ1000rr
ZZZ1...do you even own a bike? I own the 06 1krr, hence i'd being willing to bet i am more qualified to talk about than you.
You know what happens when you assume, right? Apparantly not.
In my ten years of riding, I've owned 2 9xx Hondas, and ridden countless other bikes, including top power bikes like a 1krr and a Hayabusa.
I currently own an f4i (for fun), and a ducati st3 (for touring).
Nice try.
quote:
ORIGINAL: AZ1000rr
taking your 1,2,3 & 4 theory to the test....do you really think that 4 is any less of an issue on the 600rr?
Reading comprehension problems again? *tsk* *tsk*
Read again and you'll see that I mentioned the main issue is forgiveablity in the presence of #4 (which is inherent on any bike, as you astutely noticed).
quote:
ORIGINAL: AZ1000rr
I personally find the 600rr racier, easier to wheelie on and stunt, and harder to drive slow than the 1krr. I really think that most people who have actually ridden both would agree...
No.. I don't. Sorry.
I also find it really hard to believe your stated experience when you stay stuff like this. Search around the web to find that other experienced riders really don't agree with you.
quote:
ORIGINAL: AZ1000rr
but if they don't, at least they are basing their comments on their personal experience and not speculation and conjecture from reading too many magazines
Oh boy.. There you go ASS-U-ming again.
quote:
ORIGINAL: AZ1000rr
buy the bike you like and are comfortable on, and take your time learning to ride it.
For those inquiring on why I'm so "harsh", it's because of this guys mission to "educate" people that litre bikes are fine to start on, as long as you're responsible.
I don't want new riders to follow this "advice" and to spend more time researching people/places with more experience (well, extensive experience is claimed here, I guess, so perhaps more "knowledge", since experience in this case certainly doesn't equal to knowledge).
Oh and I had to ignore your whole rant about how cool the HESD is. That "comfort" of the 1krr is dwarfed by the insane hp/weight ratio the bike sports, which is really the main concern here.
quote:
ORIGINAL: AZ1000rr
And before you go and assume that I am myself a novice, please know that I am 42 and have been riding sport bikes for more than 25 years and also know my 1krr has much more than 1000 miles on it...
And yet you make comments like :
quote:
ORIGINAL: AZ1000rr
ITS NOT THE BIKE, ITS THE RIDER....you act like a novice rider is less likely to risk injury if they ride a smaller bike, that is simply not true
Sad...
Maybe it's because you had to take the MSF just recently due to not having ridden in a long time? I hope to God that newbies look for advice elsewhere.
The point is that I appreciate you trying to express your "opinion", but in this case there are not many people sharing your opinion. Please do a little research on the web to see what other seasoned riders think of the subject, before your "opinions" get someone hurt. Maybe go back and talk to your MSF instructor from the class you just took?
I've already including a very good, well written document on why to avoid larger bikes in a link above. There are TONS more resources where people can look before buying. Search forums, newsgroups, etc...
Z.
PS Please use a little sentence structure, it's a lot easier on the eyes.
< Message edited by zzz11 -- 8/18/2006 4:10:33 AM >
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RE: ADVICE PLEASE: 600 or 1000? - 8/18/2006 10:24:22 AM
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Evan_CBR
Posts: 113
Joined: 6/8/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zzz11
The point is that I appreciate you trying to express your "opinion", but in this case there are not many people sharing your opinion. Please do a little research on the web to see what other seasoned riders think of the subject, before your "opinions" get someone hurt. Maybe go back and talk to your MSF instructor from the class you just took?
I've already including a very good, well written document on why to avoid larger bikes in a link above. There are TONS more resources where people can look before buying. Search forums, newsgroups, etc...
Z.
PS Please use a little sentence structure, it's a lot easier on the eyes.
The point is that if you appreciated his opinion, then you wouldn't have to insult him in your response. The point is that you can claim that most on the internet will disagree with him as if that validates your opinion, but most bike riders are not posting on the internet. Therefore, the internet is just a very small sampling of opinions that may or may not deviate from the general consensus of "all" bike riders who did or did not start out on a 1000RR. But your general ASSUMPTION of those who are “with you” in opinion brings you to the very error you accused and abused AZ1000rr about. Nice Try.
As I stated before, most guys in the bike shops and on the road that I have encountered started out on 600 /1000 sport bikes. But again, that is just my experience and we will all have opinions based on our experience. So if a Newb asks if he/she should get a 600/1000 as a first bike, then those who went down the same road do have a valid opinion as well as those who have years and thousands of miles of experience.
One thing to point out is that most riders who started out on small, less responsive bikes have a hard time transitioning to a sport bike because they have been trained (through all those years of experience) to the performance of a smaller bike. They now find themselves having to re-learn quick throttle response, breaking etc. Their complacency in having to "go heavy" on the throttle to get action on a smaller bike is what now scares them on a sport bike that takes off at "seemingly to them" the slightest touch. These are the folks that I have seen who most often scream the "doom and gloom…it dangerous" rhetoric.
I did not have to "practice" sensitivity with the throttle because I never had the "experience" of being on a bike where I got used to having to roll all the way. My first bike is the 06 CBR 1000rr and when I touch the throttle it moves quickly...this is what I learned on so the throttle control part "seemed" to come natural because I had no prior "lazy throttle experience" to have to counteract. Someone else who's first thought (based on their experience with a smaller bike) is to hit the throttle hard (or twist in longer ranges) will have a very hard time adjusting to the 1000rr…I did not.
As for mistakes and the unplanned, everyone will again have a different experience. I did accidentally "roll" on the throttle when I hit a dip in the road and to my surprise...my hand immediately responded and came off the "roll"...as quick as if I had touched a hot stove. The bike barely picked up any speed. But, again, I have been trained on a bike that is sensitive so my "reaction" level is also quick and sensitive.
Bottom line is...people do get 600cc and 1000cc sport bikes as their first. Is it the absolute "best choice"? No. But neither is what one had for dinner last night or maybe the person one will marry one day...as our high divorce rate suggests.
So at the end of the day...there is a risk factor in everything and one's willingness and responsibility to take it. You can't be so experience that you can "down" someone for choosing a different path in theirs. Your harshness and sarcasm does not in any way bring about "hurt feelings"...at best, your "tough love approach" will just warrant your op
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RE: ADVICE PLEASE: 600 or 1000? - 8/18/2006 10:50:12 AM
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YellowJacket1000RR
Posts: 68
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Evan_CBR
One thing to point out is that most riders who started out on small, less responsive bikes have a hard time transitioning to a sport bike because they have been trained (through all those years of experience) to the performance of a smaller bike. They now find themselves having to re-learn quick throttle response, breaking etc. Their complacency in having to "go heavy" on the throttle to get action on a smaller bike is what now scares them on a sport bike that takes off at "seemingly to them" the slightest touch. These are the folks that I have seen who most often scream the "doom and gloom…it dangerous" rhetoric.
That is not true. If you were a motorcycle instructor, you'd know better.
< Message edited by YellowJacket1000RR -- 8/18/2006 10:51:04 AM >
_____________________________
2006 CBR1000RR Stock
Yes, I said STOCK.
Let me know when I'm outperforming my bike and need to race tune it.
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RE: ADVICE PLEASE: 600 or 1000? - 8/18/2006 12:02:08 PM
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Evan_CBR
Posts: 113
Joined: 6/8/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: YellowJacket1000RR
That is not true. If you were a motorcycle instructor, you'd know better.
And neither are the folks on this board who stated how twitchy the throttle is having had extensive experience on a smaller bike. TexasArmadillo is a good example of one who was blown back by the performance of a sport bike as compared to the one he started with.
If you read other's "opinions" based on their experience as my statement implied, then you would know better. Nice Try.
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RE: ADVICE PLEASE: 600 or 1000? - 8/18/2006 12:02:27 PM
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zzz11
Posts: 37
Joined: 5/28/2006
Status: offline
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You beat me to it, Yellowjacket.
"One thing to point out is that most riders who started out on small, less responsive bikes have a hard time transitioning to a sport bike because they have been trained (through all those years of experience) to the performance of a smaller bike."
This comment is completely wrong.
Also, to say that searching around posts/discussions/articles on the internet is insufficient since not all riders use the internet is very naive.
If anything, you have it backwards. Coming to forums like this to see how people did starting off on their 600+ bikes is VERY biased and way off. You will only hear from the people that tried it and did OK (which I'm not denying happens). You will NOT hear from many people who didn't make it. Few are honest enough to say "Yeah, I was wrong. I should have started smaller. I wrecked my bike."
I'm really not going to argue with any of your comments, most of which are just way off. I appreciate the effort, but a few weeks of experience is just not going to hack it.
Z.
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RE: ADVICE PLEASE: 600 or 1000? - 8/18/2006 12:03:58 PM
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Johnny954
Posts: 56
Joined: 8/16/2006
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This post couldn't have come at a better time for me. IMO both angles are 100% correct. I'm in the process of buying a 02 954. I haven't been on a bike in 8 years. I had a katana for a few years back when they were cool as my first bike. Within the first few months of owning it I had it in the shop trying to get evey last bit of power that I could out of it. Does the 954 scare me? Yes a little. But if I'm going to invest my hard earnerd money into something I enjoy I want what I want. Otherwise you will grow tired of what you invested in very quickly.
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RE: ADVICE PLEASE: 600 or 1000? - 8/18/2006 12:30:27 PM
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Evan_CBR
Posts: 113
Joined: 6/8/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zzz11
You beat me to it, Yellowjacket.
"One thing to point out is that most riders who started out on small, less responsive bikes have a hard time transitioning to a sport bike because they have been trained (through all those years of experience) to the performance of a smaller bike."
This comment is completely wrong.
Right, when most complaining about the threat of a larger bike are...hmmm...those that started on smaller ones. Go Figure.
quote:
ORIGINAL: zzz11
Also, to say that searching around posts/discussions/articles on the internet is insufficient since not all riders use the internet is very naive.
If anything, you have it backwards. Coming to forums like this to see how people did starting off on their 600+ bikes is VERY biased and way off. You will only hear from the people that tried it and did OK (which I'm not denying happens). You will NOT hear from many people who didn't make it. Few are honest enough to say "Yeah, I was wrong. I should have started smaller. I wrecked my bike."
Who is naive? One who crowds around the opinion of a subset of riders on a board when there are millions of other riders out there with different experiences. Stop assuming that you are right and respect others' experiences / opinions.
The OP asked a question and he will get different answers. You "trolling" someone for the type of answer they give is what makes a forum board useless and takes away from the value of their opinion and ultimately the one looking for it.
quote:
ORIGINAL: zzz11
I'm really not going to argue with any of your comments, most of which are just way off. I appreciate the effort, but a few weeks of experience is just not going to hack it.
Z.
Most of my comments, like AZ11000rr's are based on my expeience...if you choose to dismiss that then, again, you would have been better off not posting. In one breath you come on strong, then when someone presents their experience which happens to disagree with your "opinion" of how they should have went about it...then you claim they are just way off.
Experience is only good until it overflows into "supreme" arrogance...and that is what sarcastic-like comments like yours convey. Your years of experience has seemingly made no impact on your inablity to commincate it in a positive manner. Again, you can't "appreciate" something you refuse to respect. Come back when you can fully understand and participate in a constructive conversation. I'll take the risk of "assuming" that you will at least try next time.
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RE: ADVICE PLEASE: 600 or 1000? - 8/18/2006 12:32:46 PM
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dwhite645
Posts: 1989
Joined: 1/21/2006
From: OldFatGuy's garage - stealing parts
Status: offline
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Wow.
I respect everyone's opinion but this is out of hand over here. Honestly, a lot of people could learn on a 1000...is it a good idea? F no! Sure, a new rider could take it down the street and back ok, but what happens when they get over confident and 'see what it can do' the 2nd week they have it? And it WILL happen. I don't see how having more power makes it more street friendly. Lets be honest...who here can even outride a 600 ss? I know I can't and probably won't be able to either because even they keep getting more racy and powerful. I'd like to get a liter bike sometime, but it's no toy, neither is a 600...or any bike.
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RE: ADVICE PLEASE: 600 or 1000? - 8/18/2006 1:00:58 PM
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2006CBR1000RR
Posts: 52
Joined: 7/26/2006
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Ok, guys settle down.
The original poster is looking for advise not looking for a couple of members to argue with each other about the advise they give.
As I stated in my post. My advise sould be taken lightly. As should everyone elses.
It all comes down to the person. If that person can control themselves than a 1000 would be fine.
But ask yourselves the following questions and answer honestly.
Would you give a Corvette to a 16 year old that just passed his/her drivers test?
If so would you want to be out riding your motorcycle on the same streets?
No matter what bike you get you will make mistakes. We all do.
To the original poster, remember opinions are like ***holes we all have them and all of them stink.
What ever you pick, congrats and keep it rubber side down.
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RE: ADVICE PLEASE: 600 or 1000? - 8/18/2006 1:20:43 PM
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Evan_CBR
Posts: 113
Joined: 6/8/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 2006CBR1000RR
Ok, guys settle down.
The original poster is looking for advise not looking for a couple of members to argue with each other about the advise they give.
EXACTLY!!!
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RE: ADVICE PLEASE: 600 or 1000? - 8/18/2006 1:42:52 PM
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zzz11
Posts: 37
Joined: 5/28/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Evan_CBR
Right, when most complaining about the threat of a larger bike are...hmmm...those that started on smaller ones. Go Figure.
LOL. Exactly. I.E : Those that give input are those that have experience.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Evan_CBR
Who is naive? One who crowds around the opinion of a subset of riders on a board when there are millions of other riders out there with different experiences. Stop assuming that you are right and respect others' experiences / opinions.
I can post links to scores of articles written by experienced riders and professionals about how wrong it is to start big.
Can you do the same to counter that?
No, but you're stubborn enough to not want to believe in all that valuable advice because you didn't follow it.
Just because a few people do something and survive proves that, yes, it's doable, BUT it doesn't mean it's generally OK. Following the advice of these few survivors, versus the 95% of others with countless more years of experience is, well, naive. Do research.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Evan_CBR
Most of my comments, [are based on my expeience]
Which is pretty much close to nothing. A few weeks of riding a motorcycle is all.
I'm done arguing with you. This is like having a chimp tell me how to walk properly.
Z.
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RE: ADVICE PLEASE: 600 or 1000? - 8/18/2006 2:57:52 PM
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dizzie56
I loves the fat chics
Posts: 2047
Joined: 5/27/2006
Status: offline
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Not to be off the topic of bitchin people out but what did the guy end up gettin the 600 or the 1000. Ive seen these threads constantly and havent scene one where the person that started it has come back to say what they got. Its kinda like they start these things to view the drama that follows.
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