RE: Figured out the slow steering 96 CBR
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RE: Figured out the slow steering 96 CBR - 7/27/2006 2:46:11 AM
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cbr_lover
Posts: 83
Joined: 12/20/2005
From: Gloucestershire,UK
Status: offline
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Well on the side of my chainguard,on the original factory sticker thats still there! ,it's says that
the tyre pressures should be 36psi Front & 42psi rear regardless of riding solo or carrying a
pillion.....
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RE: Figured out the slow steering 96 CBR - 7/28/2006 9:17:43 AM
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chesthing
Posts: 207
Joined: 7/3/2006
From: castle rock, co
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Everyone is entitled to their opinions and should run whatever tire pressure they feel comfortable with. That being said I'd just like to say one more thing on the subject then leave it alone. The ZX14 manual calls for 42 psi front and rear. It has the exact same front tire size as our bikes and a slightly larger rear. It weighs probably 30 lbs less. I'm guessing the difference in the manual recommendations is entirely due to the difference in original tires, not any difference in motorcycles. Thanks for listening.
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RE: Figured out the slow steering 96 CBR - 7/28/2006 12:17:10 PM
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R1000
Posts: 1129
Joined: 1/30/2006
From: Sweden
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Somewhat off topic to start with, by real fresh experience, I've learned the hard way that when the front loses the grip even during the slightest turn, the bike will be down far quicker than one could ever imagine. I was caught under my bike before a knew I was beginning to lay the bike on side  . It didn't caused much more than some real bruces since the speed was not to impressing (a few mph only).
On track one always (should) go down to something like just around 30 PSI front and rear to imrove the grip - more flex, larger contact path and to compensate for high temperature where the pressure elsewhere will rise and deform the tyre profile.
Interesting about the ZX14 front pressure though, I wonder why the front should be so much inflated, maybe that bike has more weight on its front than normal due to all light armatures 
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RE: Figured out the slow steering 96 CBR - 8/1/2006 8:52:12 AM
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dad
Posts: 296
Joined: 11/6/2005
From: Pittsburgh Pennsylvania
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And the ZX-11 weighs about the same yet the factory recommends 41 front on those. They also had damper rod front ends, no cartridges. Maybe that had something to do with the choice. Higher risk of rim damage on extremely harsh bumps due to harsh compression damping in those conditions. That seems most likely to me but have no supporting information beyond an educated guess.
I'm not sure that this matters much more than interesting ponderings as it doesn't alter the Honda factory recommendations, supported by the tire manufacturers, nor the real world anecdotes I've posted above. Just remember, if you run them higher than recommended the front wheel can lock sooner than at recommended. That can be considered a fact, not an opinion. Use it as you will.
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RE: Figured out the slow steering 96 CBR - 8/18/2006 12:16:40 PM
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R1000
Posts: 1129
Joined: 1/30/2006
From: Sweden
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quote:
ORIGINAL: chesthing
Everyone is entitled to their opinions and should run whatever tire pressure they feel comfortable with. That being said I'd just like to say one more thing on the subject then leave it alone. The ZX14 manual calls for 42 psi front and rear. It has the exact same front tire size as our bikes and a slightly larger rear. It weighs probably 30 lbs less. I'm guessing the difference in the manual recommendations is entirely due to the difference in original tires, not any difference in motorcycles. Thanks for listening.
The recommended tyre pressure on the Blackbird is also the same, 42 psi both front and rear. I'll use that for road driving. Funny though, that Honda recommends such difference between its own bike model which are so close weightwise.
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RE: Figured out the slow steering 96 CBR - 8/18/2006 3:32:16 PM
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R1000
Posts: 1129
Joined: 1/30/2006
From: Sweden
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quote:
ORIGINAL: dad
I only know what I can tell you about my experiences with pressures, measured temperatures, locking fronts, and even track use recommendations from tire manufacturers. Chances are most riders won't push the braking threshold that high but it DOES make a difference. And my experiences are in the slightly over and slightly under recommended with the same brand of tire in reasonably similar conditions, which I would consider a fair test.
You have been given the information, now use it as you will.
Oh, and I'm not sure but the linked brakes and weight bias effect the parameters. Yes, I know your later models have linked brakes but that IS a potential difference. It would be very interesting to hear the engineers' take on their recommendations but I will assume they weren't arrived at willy nilly.
I'm confused but could still learn and catch up... I would not dream of anything other than use like about 32 PSI both f/r on track. When I checked the Blackbird today, which handles and turns in MUCH better and agile than the Hurricane ever did, the front pressure was only 28 PSI...I'll still will follow Hondas advice, 42 PSI front/rear for road use. It seems to me like the tolerance for different pressures on tyres gripwise, is quite wide and we tend to over-emphase the need for a personal favourite pressure.
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RE: Figured out the slow steering 96 CBR - 8/18/2006 5:51:56 PM
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TimBucTwo
Posts: 609
Joined: 6/13/2006
From: Upstate NY, USA
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It’s funny that you were running your front tire at 28 PSI. I have dropped down to 27 PSI on my front. I have the same tires as you, the Roadtech. I can take the bike down to the elephant’s mouth without being nervous. I softened the rebound some and the bike feels better down at those angles. With the new settings and the lower PSI I think I can take out the elephant’s knees. The glaze down there scares me. I am getting older and have less nerve and reaction time these days. The softening of the tire helps to keep the bike smooth but you eat up the tire real quick. I believe the Honda setting is best for tire life. Those knees and bothering me……..
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RE: Figured out the slow steering 96 CBR - 8/19/2006 3:07:49 AM
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R1000
Posts: 1129
Joined: 1/30/2006
From: Sweden
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TimBucTwo
It’s funny that you were running your front tire at 28 PSI. I have dropped down to 27 PSI on my front. I have the same tires as you, the Roadtech. I can take the bike down to the elephant’s mouth without being nervous. I softened the rebound some and the bike feels better down at those angles. With the new settings and the lower PSI I think I can take out the elephant’s knees. The glaze down there scares me. I am getting older and have less nerve and reaction time these days. The softening of the tire helps to keep the bike smooth but you eat up the tire real quick. I believe the Honda setting is best for tire life. Those knees and bothering me……..
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I'll try the recommended setting a few days, 41 PSI, front and rear. It was not 42 like I said earlier (we use kg/cm2 here, 2,9 in this case). Since the bike turned in so well with 28 front, and felt stable in high speed corners, and didn't resisted small quick steering movements when going almost zero mph before a stop light, the traditional and same value for front as the Hurricane (36 PSI) would feel more sensible than 41 PSI. I completely agree with dad saying the braking grip is better if the tire is not over inflated, and since it is almost a must to go down below 36 in pressure on tracks the 41 value recommended by Honda appears to high to me. 41 PSI will also decrease the tyre flex on rough roads, which could be fatal during lean down. I'll give the recommended 41/41 a chance, but at any signs of loose front I'll back down to “industry standard 36 PSI front” since it worked very good also with 28. The 28 value is to low by any standards (except on track for some), I was surprised to read such low value on a perfectly well performing bike, so I checked with three different gauges before inflating up the tyre.
I'll also check the recommendation for newer Blackbirds, maybe Honda learned later that the 41 front was to high and lowered the recommendation on newer bikes.
The not so common 41 PSI front recommendation could also simply be based on another issue, the intention and possibility to run this bike at almost 300 km/h in comfort. That is a goal also for the ZX14, which is built for extreme speed rather than track use. I'm 98 % sure right now when thinking about that, that this is the main reason for the high front pressure recommendation on Blackbirds and ZX14. I currently believe 36 PSI front, like almost all other bikes have, will be a better compromise for good corner and brake grip etc. I will not jeopardise the daily brake and corner grip in order to not have to fill the tyre up to 41 PSI for continuous speeds at 290 km/h 3 months later on Autobahn  .
So, I already changed, the bike will be moving around on daily basis with 41 rear and 36 front, and lower pressure on track days. I will not trade brake grip for tyre longlivety and it worked incredible well with 28 front pressure so 36 is by that alredy proven not to be to little for common use. In case of continuous running at super-sonic speeds the recommendation should be followed, but for normal use on our roads, the time spent at 290 km/h is limited and not a factor to consider.
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RE: Figured out the slow steering 96 CBR - 8/19/2006 1:20:09 PM
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TimBucTwo
Posts: 609
Joined: 6/13/2006
From: Upstate NY, USA
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I agree. I think that the higher PSI for the newer bikes is up because the manufactures know that riders buy them with the intent to open them up to high speed.
The 36 PSI seams to be parked in the middle of sport and touring. I have mine set to the Honda settings and only drop them for the sport ride.
If I were planning a long overnight trip with gear I would go up some, say 41 or 42.
Maybe there is not real engineering backing on the Honda’s settings rather than common sense for over all average. In other words, best tire wear handling compromise.
In that picture of my tire you can clearly see what stress the tire is going through by the scuffing, at lower PSI. I would much rather scuff them than to slide them, and risk break lock and chatter, at higher PSI. Slideing is tricky. One oily spot and you go to the outside to quick for my taste.
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RE: Figured out the slow steering 96 CBR - 8/19/2006 1:50:45 PM
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R1000
Posts: 1129
Joined: 1/30/2006
From: Sweden
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TimBucTwo
I agree. I think that the higher PSI for the newer bikes is up because the manufactures know that riders buy them with the intent to open them up to high speed.
The 36 PSI seams to be parked in the middle of sport and touring. I have mine set to the Honda settings and only drop them for the sport ride.
If I were planning a long overnight trip with gear I would go up some, say 41 or 42.
Maybe there is not real engineering backing on the Honda’s settings rather than common sense for over all average. In other words, best tire wear handling compromise.
In that picture of my tire you can clearly see what stress the tire is going through by the scuffing, at lower PSI. I would much rather scuff them than to slide them, and risk break lock and chatter, at higher PSI. Slideing is tricky. One oily spot and you go to the outside to quick for my taste.
The differnt parts of the elephant are good indicators, never thought about it until you meansioned it. The elephants on my left side have had their feets and below on tarmac already, the RH elephants havn't been so agressive yet, and are still untouched
Today I got an unplanned race with a Volvo V70 T5, possibly prepped with higher turbo pressure. I stayed behind to see what top speed he would do, it was 270 km/h on my speedo before I overtake. I went off throttle at indicated 300 km/h and will check by GPS what these figures really are.
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RE: Figured out the slow steering 96 CBR - 8/19/2006 6:45:40 PM
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rino
Posts: 33
Joined: 8/6/2006
Status: offline
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Chesthing....
here is something to ponder, not trying to debate I tell you. Sometimes we need to realize that even though we truly believe we are right - we are indeed off the mark. Open mindedness is a good thing.
Here's a tire situation of another sort to use as an example (please don't be quick to say "no, we're talking motorcycles" cause you would miss my point. I raced road bikes (the pedal type) in my 20's. My all around tire of choice for most racing situations was a Vittoria Corsa CX, a very fine hand sewn cotton $70 sewup tire that you glue to the rim. Those tires would hold 200 lbs of air if you wanted them to! For dry road races with no hard corners I would race at 120psi. For Criteriums (roped off city blocks, hard turns...pedal scraping leans... I would race 95-105 depending on the pavement quality , sharpness of the turns etc (assuming it was dry). For Wet weather Criteriums I would always run 95psi on the money and prep my tires with lemon juice to get the rubber sticky. NEVER would you catch me racing 120psi on a wet Crit...and certainly not 200 psi on any race even though the mighty tires could hold that psi.
If so you would find my me flat on my back, slid into a hay bail on the side of the course or on the side of the road cussing a flat tire cause it was pumped up too hard and i rolled over a pebble.
My point:
1) yes you can use whatever pressure you select
2) you might not ride as hard, lean or even ride the same conditions (ie gravelly corners, wet climates, temps etc) as others you are comparing to
3) you might be Wrong but just "lucky" not to have had a problem but yet riding on the very edge of a problem...far closer than you realize
4)Your pressure recommendations seem so different than the majority so you might want to re-research...
5) Maybe you are right and the majority is wrong.
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RE: Figured out the slow steering 96 CBR - 8/19/2006 8:47:55 PM
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chesthing
Posts: 207
Joined: 7/3/2006
From: castle rock, co
Status: offline
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Jeez, you sound like I'm running 55 psi or something - 42 is only 6 lbs more than Honda recommended in 1994 for the tires it used at the time and is an acceptible level according to the current tire manufacturer for my tire. I can understand the thinking behind sticking to the Honda manual, but I can't understand the general consensus that I'm a walking dead man because I'm running a few lbs more.
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RE: Figured out the slow steering 96 CBR - 8/19/2006 9:41:32 PM
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Trips
Posts: 801
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: Perth (Western Australia)
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It comes down to suspension ability as well.
As we all know the tyre acts as a shock absorber to an extent. Now the ZX-14 and even Super Budgie have front suspension technology that is much better than the CBR's. The CBR probably needs the front at 36psi to do part of the job of the front suspension at softening the bumps.
The forks on the CBR are great for touring, but leave a lot to be desired for hard cornering in anything but a perfectly smooth road.
I ride mine very fast on back roads that are goat tracks compared to what you have in the US & Europe. If the front is inflated any more than 36 the front tends to loose traction on bumps in a corner making it run wide.
But if I go too soft on the tyre pressure the front flexes that much that I have to keep adjusting the bike mid corner.
_____________________________
Remember the light at the end of the tunnel may be an oncoming train!
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RE: Figured out the slow steering 96 CBR - 8/19/2006 9:53:43 PM
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rino
Posts: 33
Joined: 8/6/2006
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Ya...6 lbs but it is 17% higher than Honda recommends (36)
In my book I'd be cautious at that much increase over recommended, especially on the front.
Not trying to haggle this...just throwin out my two bits. Hope you don't take it personal.
Heading to montana flyfishin!
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