Figured out the slow steering 96 CBR

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Figured out the slow steering 96 CBR

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Figured out the slow steering 96 CBR - 7/23/2006 3:35:55 PM

CBR1000Farmer

Posts: 12
Joined: 7/16/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

Well, you guys were right. The tire pressures were down in the low 30's and after I pumped them up to 36/42 psi it handled much better. Also, I wasn't looking very close at the rear tires and thought they were 170's, but they are 180/55R17 which might slow the steering some. Anyway, it's really good now and I just have to take some time to change the chain and sprockets.

Thanks,

Pat

Post #: 1

RE: Figured out the slow steering 96 CBR - 7/23/2006 4:26:59 PM

chesthing

Posts: 207
Joined: 7/3/2006
From: castle rock, co
Status: offline

I keep my tires inflated to the max number on the tire - if it's 42 on the front, put it at 42 and keep it from dropping below 40. Tires will get maximum life and will give you the best ride.

(in reply to CBR1000Farmer)

Post #: 2

RE: Figured out the slow steering 96 CBR - 7/26/2006 6:00:01 AM

dad

Posts: 296
Joined: 11/6/2005
From: Pittsburgh Pennsylvania
Status: offline

Be careful with that much air in the front. It can lock easier under hard braking. Even a couple of pounds makes a difference. The factory recommends 36PSI for the front and that's what really should be used. The higher pressure might be a little easier on tire wear but does sacrifice hard braking grip.

(in reply to chesthing)

Post #: 3

RE: Figured out the slow steering 96 CBR - 7/26/2006 12:16:57 PM

chesthing

Posts: 207
Joined: 7/3/2006
From: castle rock, co
Status: offline

Honda manual recommended tire psi relates to the original tires only. One should always go by the tire markings, max pressure gives best handling and tire life.

(in reply to CBR1000Farmer)

Post #: 4

RE: Figured out the slow steering 96 CBR - 7/26/2006 12:29:07 PM

dad

Posts: 296
Joined: 11/6/2005
From: Pittsburgh Pennsylvania
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Please, as diplomatically as I can say it, that's just wrong. The pressure on the tire is the maximum pressure for the tire at the maximum load rating and NOT the optimum pressure for every application. The tire's performance is best at the appropriate inflation for the load and conditions and is what the engineers determine from their tests and knowledge. Most, if not all, of the tires, including the OEM's, will have a maximum pressure listed on the sidewall that is higher than the factory recommended pressure. Some tire manufacturer's web sites have tables that list the factory recommended pressures for each model and suggest that they be followed.

Overinflating the front will allow the front to lock much sooner than it will at factory recommended pressures. I know this from an understanding of the principles AND from first hand experience. The same is true for car and truck tires, too.

< Message edited by dad -- 7/26/2006 12:31:11 PM >

(in reply to chesthing)

Post #: 5

RE: Figured out the slow steering 96 CBR - 7/26/2006 1:29:42 PM

TimBucTwo

Posts: 606
Joined: 6/13/2006
From: Upstate NY, USA
Status: offline

Well put dad.

chesthing, proper tire inflation is the key here for tire longevity.
The manufactures start with a tire and build a bike around it. If the design does not work they pick another tire and start to redesign the bike to the tire. Sometimes the go to the tire manufacture and tell them they need a tire for a bike that is still on the drawing boards. Recommended tire pressure is based on veichel weight and stresses.

By over inflating your front tire it will perform poorly in wet conditions and lock early as dad stated (more of a chatter than lock I think in some cases).

(in reply to dad)

Post #: 6

RE: Figured out the slow steering 96 CBR - 7/26/2006 2:06:02 PM

chesthing

Posts: 207
Joined: 7/3/2006
From: castle rock, co
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I respectfully disagree with you on this one, dad. The maximum psi for radial car tires is 35 lbs, and that is what should be put in them, a bike tire is no different. Putting 35 psi in a bike tire with a max psi of 42 is like putting 28 lbs in a car tire with 35 max.

(in reply to TimBucTwo)

Post #: 7

RE: Figured out the slow steering 96 CBR - 7/26/2006 2:28:54 PM

dad

Posts: 296
Joined: 11/6/2005
From: Pittsburgh Pennsylvania
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Here you go. Dunlop's site. Recommended tire and pressure by model. Front pressure, 36 PSI recommended.

Edit: You'll have to scroll down and select Honda and then CBR-1000F, any year. The link won't go direct.

http://www.dunlopmotorcycle.com/fitmentguide.asp

Then the tire data alone including maximum pressure. Max pressure, 42 PSI which is what will be molded into sidewall. This one goes direct.

http://www.dunlopmotorcycle.com/tirecatalog_tire.asp?id=74

< Message edited by dad -- 7/26/2006 2:32:48 PM >

(in reply to chesthing)

Post #: 8

RE: Figured out the slow steering 96 CBR - 7/26/2006 3:14:55 PM

TimBucTwo

Posts: 606
Joined: 6/13/2006
From: Upstate NY, USA
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chesthing, I am sorry to say that your thinking is incorrect.
On a car, an under inflated tire wears on the outsides and an over inflated tire wears on the center of the tire. If the tire is correctly inflated, the load is distrubited evenly.

Load is the key. If you look at the chart where dad directed you, you will see max load at tire pressure. I have the following.

120/70 17 front
170/60 17 rear
at 42 PSI, I would require 520 lb's of load up front and 783 lb's in the rear for proper tire pressure/load ratio.

That's 1,303 lb's for the vehicle, rider plus fuel. My bike weighs 548 lb's.
OK then, 1303-548=755 lb's for the rider. I am not that heavy but some stress in turns adds to weighting the tire. No-where near the 1303 at max PSI.

(in reply to chesthing)

Post #: 9

RE: Figured out the slow steering 96 CBR - 7/26/2006 3:24:26 PM

TimBucTwo

Posts: 606
Joined: 6/13/2006
From: Upstate NY, USA
Status: offline

One more thing to add,
The use of radial tires allows the contact patch of the tire to contact the pavement when the sidewall flexes. Over inflation works against this design, not allowing the tire to flex as it should and the tire will skid or slip in turns.

(in reply to CBR1000Farmer)

Post #: 10

RE: Figured out the slow steering 96 CBR - 7/26/2006 3:32:02 PM

Bassman

Posts: 72
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: Hamden, CT USA
Status: offline

Thank you TimBuckto and Dad for replying correctly to this question. It scared me when I first read Chesthings comments that some one would do such a thing. It's almost like believeing that a vehicles top speed is determined by what it's speedo's top reading is.

_____________________________

Bassman
''93 CBR 1000F
''89 GB 500
''83 XR 350R
''76 CB 400F

(in reply to TimBucTwo)

Post #: 11

RE: Figured out the slow steering 96 CBR - 7/26/2006 10:56:20 PM

chesthing

Posts: 207
Joined: 7/3/2006
From: castle rock, co
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That's a pretty ridiculous analogy, now isnt it? I'm speaking from experience and have never had any problems whatsoever. Handling is improved in my book with 42 psi and so is tire life. I've only owned bikes for 22 years now. With a minimum recommended 36 and max 42, it's not like I'm WAY out there or something, I think the bike would perform fine at any pressure in between these and it comes down to preference. btw, do you inflate your car tires to less than the max? every place I've ever bought tires from inflates them to the max recommended level fo 35 psi. I'm done with this debate, I was just giving a little friendly advice.

(in reply to Bassman)

Post #: 12

RE: Figured out the slow steering 96 CBR - 7/26/2006 11:12:55 PM

DRam

Posts: 396
Joined: 7/21/2005
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Ooooh, oooooh, I just love tire pressure debates. They're almost as much fun a oil debates, except incorrect tire pressure has far more than engine damage implications. Chesthing, belive and inflate as you will, but the specs for my '91 CBR call for 32 pounds front, 42 pounds rear. I'll stay with what Honda recommends, even though the tires have 42 pounds as the maximum inflation pressure stamped on them. Dad and TimBucTwo are correct, Honda knows what pressures work best and safest for their bikes. As to inflating car and pickup tires to the maximum printed on the sidewall - if you are carrying the maximum load your vehicle is rated for, that's fine. Otherwise every vehicle I've checked out has lower than max pressures recommended for everyday use.

(in reply to chesthing)

Post #: 13

RE: Figured out the slow steering 96 CBR - 7/26/2006 11:48:30 PM

Illushun

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Joined: 3/26/2006
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It isn't really the tire that handles the load of the bike and rider as much as it is the air pressure that dictates the flex of the tire, which is the pre-curser to the aforementioned. Max and recommended are at far ends of the spectrum for a purpose. It was brought up that one wouldn't put 28lbs of air in a 35lb max tire. On the contrary to this. If your vehicle is stuck in the snow, they recommend letting a little more air out of the tire to allow more of a contact patch to be applied to the surface. This is not the case for when you are traveling in the same condition(s). Also, when drag racing, I use to run 5-8 psi in the rear tire to allow for more heat to be put into the tire and thus allowing for more flex of the tire enabling more traction.

In an agressive riding situation, one would not too low of pressure in the tire as it would cause additional heat in the tire whereby the compound of the tire would breakdown. While at the same time, the effect of having more pressure in the tire compensates for, as others mentioned, additional load put on the tire. I do agree with all on this, tire pressure should be checked, and check regularly, but, it should be based primarily on the conditions of how you are using them.

I, by far am no expert on tires, but like others have noted, many years of trying different tires, pressures, and the situations they are put in, helps to understand what works.

I bet that the only ones that would be considered experts in this field would be racers which gave the tire designers their feedback. I would think that even technology couldn't identically replicate a test situation as there are too many unpredictable or uncontrollable variables. Even linear regression analysis wouldn't completely work and there would still be a margin of error.

Sorry, I had to get my 2 cents in as I didn't want to go through withdrawals of not posting to my favorite forum. ok, back to more fun.

(in reply to DRam)

Post #: 14

RE: Figured out the slow steering 96 CBR - 7/27/2006 1:25:58 AM

dad

Posts: 296
Joined: 11/6/2005
From: Pittsburgh Pennsylvania
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The handling will be fine and so will the braking.... up until you brake so hard that the front wants to lock. At that point you'll not have the tire traction to match the braking and it WILL lock... on dry pavement... and with a howl that you'd swear could only come from a tractor trailer. Better be quick with that brake hand at that point 'cause you don't get time to ponder what to do when the front locks. Drop the pressure down and you can lighten the rear enough to lift the tire off the ground. To quote the infamous Ron White, "I know... I seen me do it!"

Both lock it, from overinflated by 2 PSI trying to get additional mileage on a highway trip, and then lift it at or slightly below Honda recommended pressures.

And if you really want to stop the thing, most decent street rubber can be dropped to about 32. (Unless they're Diablo Corsa's, then 34, or Michelin Pilot Races where you can go all of the way down to the 20's.)

They don't overheat at those lowered pressures but do wear faster and would only be necessary if you're riding like you never should on the street. For the street, Honda's recommendations are actually a pretty darn good balance of performance and optimum wear. Go figure.

A track tire vendor can tell you what will work best with the brands he sells and yes, they will be even lower than the factory recommended, and yes, they stick much better. And also, I DO use a tire pyrometer to measure my temps at the track and have done it on the street just to prove out a few things for myself. This IS something I have some experience with that exceeds the average bear.

And for the record, thirty-seven years street riding, twenty to twenty-five thousand miles a year typical, and over 120,000 miles on exactly one of these bikes (1990) running the wheels off it all over the country on the street, and occasionally on the track.

Additionally for the record, my preferred tire on this bike is a Diablo Corsa, inflated to 36 front and 42 rear on the street, and 34 front and 36 rear on the track. For street only, Diablo's are pretty nice, too. On the old Dunlop 207's which I used to run, I used to drop 3 pounds each end on the street for a hard twisty ride to stop the slides I was experiencing, standard otherwise, but 32 front and 34 rear on the track. And that was because that was what performed best all around. (You can drop a little more on a lighter bike.) And when Dunlop quit the 207's and went to the 208's, I went as low as 30/30 at the track on my one and only set of those, and when they still didn't work well, just melted, I quit running Dunlops.

There's a load of stuff I wasn't going to get into but I felt compelled.

I can do more.

Bonus points: Guess at what temperature a Diablo Corsa gets greasy. It'll probably surprise you. It still amazes me what these things take.

< Message edited by dad -- 7/27/2006 3:09:59 AM >

(in reply to Illushun)

Post #: 15