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To Trailbrake or not to Trailbrake

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To Trailbrake or not to Trailbrake - 7/24/2006 2:09:32 PM

Jaybird180

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Joined: 5/12/2006
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I'm a track n00b and had my 1st on 7/22. It was a blast. To make a long story about that short (for the moment) I ran 4 sessions, crashed on 1 and 3, but not due to this topic.

I'm used to trailbraking into corners and feel comfortable doing so. I know it's an advanced technique and I shouldn't be. How do I set my speed prior to turn-in to resist being on the brakes?

A couple of times, I was too fast for the rider in front of me in the turn. B class does not permit passing in the turns, so I was doing something sooooo uncomfortable, braking while leaned over to scrub speed (kills the drive too). What's a better way to scrub speed or avoid a collision from having higher corner entry speed.

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RE: To Trailbrake or not to Trailbrake - 7/24/2006 3:49:33 PM

Tahoe SC

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you have to ride more and gain more experience so you can guage your speed and what you can do and can't do.

trail braking is great, especially when it's about getting into turn hot and outbrake someone who may have a faster bike than you, etc., but the best and fastest way is to be smooth through it all and pick the best lines, which only comes with lots of riding and practicing.

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Post #: 2

RE: To Trailbrake or not to Trailbrake - 7/24/2006 3:52:35 PM

Jaybird180

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At this point in my development, I think its a bad habit. Agree/ Disagree?

How can I slow down when I have a slower rider in front of me when I'm at max lean angle? I was like 'holy (you know what)'

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RE: To Trailbrake or not to Trailbrake - 7/24/2006 4:02:05 PM

Tahoe SC

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yea i had a habit of doing that since i was riding a really tight twists...but then went to a different place with long sweepers and short tight turns and it even'd out my style.

wow...no passing except straights? that's no fun...in that situation, you'll just have to slow down or something.

you want to do all of your braking before you enter the corner....but with these monkeys, maybe you need to be running in a faster group since you can't even pass on the outside.

_____________________________

Admit it...you love my siggy...

"Let the ignorance die with the ignorant" - Tahoe SC
bye bye F4i!

(in reply to Jaybird180)

Post #: 4

RE: To Trailbrake or not to Trailbrake - 7/24/2006 6:33:17 PM

Jaybird180

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Joined: 5/12/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tahoe SC

yea i had a habit of doing that since i was riding a really tight twists...but then went to a different place with long sweepers and short tight turns and it even'd out my style.

wow...no passing except straights? that's no fun...in that situation, you'll just have to slow down or something.

you want to do all of your braking before you enter the corner....but with these monkeys, maybe you need to be running in a faster group since you can't even pass on the outside.

You must've read up on NESBA? Where can I find orgs that will get me more track time? I believe it would be helpful for me to stay on that track 1st until I get to a certain level of comptetence and then hit other tracks.
I've heard of club racing. I read a lot where Nich Ienatch did that. Where do I find out about them?

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TrackDay Ready 02''F4i
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Post #: 5

RE: To Trailbrake or not to Trailbrake - 7/24/2006 10:11:44 PM

Fretless33

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I'd leave the trail braking for later in your track life...especially since you've already crashed twice in your first session...wait until you have the basics down more before you attempt advanced techniques because trail braking can and will put you on your ass (or in the dirt) if you don't do it right.

If you're having problems with a slower person in the group talk to the control rider and see what he can do, sometimes they allow you to pass if it's getting dangerous, or ask to be put in a faster group...but being that you crashed twice already you might need to actually slow down...like the saying goes "sometimes you need to learn to be slow, before you can be fast..." (did I say that right?

)

(in reply to Jaybird180)

Post #: 6

RE: To Trailbrake or not to Trailbrake - 7/25/2006 3:46:58 PM

Jaybird180

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So I need to actually learn how to ride show???? Are there drills on that?

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Post #: 7

RE: To Trailbrake or not to Trailbrake - 7/26/2006 1:10:54 AM

yauhen

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Joined: 4/19/2006
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I just had my first track day on July 13. I took track school and I rode about 5 sessions in the morning and 2 more in the afternoon before I crashed. I was practicing traibraking, using rear brake, downshiftin/blipping while braking, etc. Basically I was trying to learn to many new things at the same time and... I used front brake in the middle of " double apex" turn while leaned over and lowsided it.( Due to trailbraking I was feeling a bit too comfortoble braking while leaned over) I was afraid that my riding was over for the day because I broke the foot peg, but I managed to put the passenger one in the front.
I rode 3 more sessions and they where more productive then anything else I did that day: I tried to make it as simple as possible for myself and I left all the advanced stuff for after I'm comfortable enough with the basics. No rear brake for now, as few gear changes as possible for noe, no trail braking for now. Just follow the line: braking point, turn in, apex, track out, braking point, turn in apex, track out.
That's what I learned from my experience that day:
To learn how to ride slow is to follow the line and be consistent lap after lap. It's like learning a very fast lick on the guitar: first you play very slowly and after you memorised it and you don't have to think about where to put your fingers( or where to brake, where to start to roll on on your bike, where shift your wait, etc.) next you increase speed gradually;then you'll be able to play very fast and feel relaxed . It would seem as if you were playing slow. I think that's the same about riding on the track. Memorise, practice slowly till it becomes second nature and don't rush it, or you will become sloppy.

What track did you go to?

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Post #: 8

RE: To Trailbrake or not to Trailbrake - 7/26/2006 9:46:50 AM

Jaybird180

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I did Summit Point, WV Jefferson Course.
This may seem like a silly question, but what does it mean ride slow? Reason I'm asking is that I didn't think much about speed. I was trying to learn the reference points. That took a lot of effort for me along with getting over 1st time fears and jitters. After I saw that I kept getting passed on exits I said to myself, 'Oh, roll on the throttle.' Then when I was getting passed on the straights I said, 'Oh, my revs are too low going into the previous turn, downshift after I brake'.

I taped over my speedo just for this reason. Peeps back home asked how fast I was going to which I said, 'I dunno'.

Regardless of my being slower than most on the track, I felt like a winner...I hope my bud has some video of me hitting the front straight, revving up in 3rd gear, braking, downshifting to 2nd (with the blip) and then hitting T1. That was the most memorable part of the day for me. I felt like I was on TV.

The carousel was scariest. There's also a blind left off-camber (really?) turn to get you onto the front straight. That was fun. My 1st crash was on that exit (too wide). I'm proud of myself for conquering that. Fall off the horse get right back on.

_____________________________

TrackDay Ready 02''F4i
ZG Double Bubble, Galfer SS Lines, PCIIIr, Muzzy s/o, NRC cover, Shift Minder(anyone want it?), Speedbleeders, Vortex sliders, fender elimated, GP Shift
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(in reply to yauhen)

Post #: 9

RE: To Trailbrake or not to Trailbrake - 7/26/2006 10:00:13 AM

Fretless33

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Joined: 9/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jaybird180

This may seem like a silly question, but what does it mean ride slow?

It doesn't necessarily mean being slow, but focusing on the basics first, finding the lines, brake markers and acceleration points, trying to be smooth rather than fast, rolling on the throttle instead of cranking it, finding comfortable corner entry speeds without triggering survival reactions and after those fall into place and become second nature your friends will be telling you how fast you are...know what I mean now?

Have you read any sport bike riding books yet?

(in reply to Jaybird180)

Post #: 10

RE: To Trailbrake or not to Trailbrake - 7/26/2006 1:33:15 PM

Jaybird180

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Joined: 5/12/2006
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I think I'm naturally smooth. I'm so smooth that by the time I roll on the throttle when I get 3/4, it's time to brake :-)

Reading/ Studying material:
I think I've read all of the riding skill series from SportRider magazine/ online. They seem to be repeats (but good).
I read Keith Code's Articles on his website
I have the DVD Twist of the Wrist
I watch AMA & FIM Roadracing (except the 125 and 250)
I read CBR Forum (#1---ROCKS)

and other boards
I think about motorcycles all the time (does that count?)

_____________________________

TrackDay Ready 02''F4i
ZG Double Bubble, Galfer SS Lines, PCIIIr, Muzzy s/o, NRC cover, Shift Minder(anyone want it?), Speedbleeders, Vortex sliders, fender elimated, GP Shift
Ohlins, Racetech, Showa Custom Suspension

Teaching Fun and Prosperity

(in reply to Fretless33)

Post #: 11

RE: To Trailbrake or not to Trailbrake - 7/26/2006 2:09:40 PM

Fretless33

Posts: 1007
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jaybird180

Reading/ Studying material:
I think I've read all of the riding skill series from SportRider magazine/ online. They seem to be repeats (but good).
I read Keith Code's Articles on his website
I have the DVD Twist of the Wrist
I watch AMA & FIM Roadracing (except the 125 and 250)
I read CBR Forum (#1---ROCKS) and other boards
I think about motorcycles all the time (does that count?)

LOL! Obviously you'rea visual learner...I recommend getting these three books and make them your riding Bibles:

Keith Code's Twist of the Wrist II

Lee Park's Total Control

Nick Ienatsch's Sport Riding Techniques

Between those books you'll be able to hone your riding knowledge and then apply the techniques your next track day, the difference in riding will be amazing!

(in reply to Jaybird180)

Post #: 12

RE: To Trailbrake or not to Trailbrake - 7/26/2006 8:52:06 PM

Jaybird180

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Joined: 5/12/2006
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Never thought of myself as a visual learner, but I'll accept that. I do visualize when reading complex material.
(Are you a Teacher or something?)

I think I saw Ienatch's book in the store...interesting reading. Will they make that much of a difference before my next trackday? (Looking at about 3 weeks away)

_____________________________

TrackDay Ready 02''F4i
ZG Double Bubble, Galfer SS Lines, PCIIIr, Muzzy s/o, NRC cover, Shift Minder(anyone want it?), Speedbleeders, Vortex sliders, fender elimated, GP Shift
Ohlins, Racetech, Showa Custom Suspension

Teaching Fun and Prosperity

(in reply to Fretless33)

Post #: 13

RE: To Trailbrake or not to Trailbrake - 7/26/2006 8:54:35 PM

Jaybird180

Posts: 2584
Joined: 5/12/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tahoe SC

yea i had a habit of doing that since i was riding a really tight twists...but then went to a different place with long sweepers and short tight turns and it even'd out my style.

wow...no passing except straights? that's no fun...in that situation, you'll just have to slow down or something.

you want to do all of your braking before you enter the corner....but with these monkeys, maybe you need to be running in a faster group since you can't even pass on the outside.

OK, now I got you...Yeah, B-Class can only pass while the bike is vertical. You can outbrake, but it has to be super clean.

_____________________________

TrackDay Ready 02''F4i
ZG Double Bubble, Galfer SS Lines, PCIIIr, Muzzy s/o, NRC cover, Shift Minder(anyone want it?), Speedbleeders, Vortex sliders, fender elimated, GP Shift
Ohlins, Racetech, Showa Custom Suspension

Teaching Fun and Prosperity

(in reply to Tahoe SC)

Post #: 14

RE: To Trailbrake or not to Trailbrake - 9/21/2006 5:29:14 PM

shane431

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Joined: 7/18/2006
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My advice is it's a trackday, don't ride anymore than 75-80% of your ability. You'll be safer and learn more. When you go 100% your mistakes are mutiplied and harder to recover from. Trailbraking is learned through repition and practice. I think the easiest way to learn is to find your favorite corner on the track and slowly start trail braking farther and farther into the turn. Also, I suggest you get most of your braking done earlier so you can enter the corner smoother and settle your chassis before you start the turn. And don't worry about getting passed! I consider myself a faster guy at the track and guess what.....there are still guys that fly by me!

(in reply to Jaybird180)

Post #: 15