quote:

ORIGINAL: canadianF4i

My mechanical experience is with cars and heavy trucks (I'm a licenced auto and commercial transport mechanic) not bikes but the principles are the same and there were a few incorrect statements made by mikequin.

Lowering your operating temp by any amount will not harm your engine or increase wear it will only affect your engines efficiency. If that were true you'd be excessively wearing your engine from the time you started it until the time it got to operating temp. The only time temp plays a role in engine wear is when your oil is too cold to flow properly and the bearings, etc, are starved for lube or too hot and it breaks the oil down so it doesn't lubricate as designed.

I'm not sure how water pumps are designed on bikes but in cars and trucks water pumps do benefit from conditioners which are built into the coolant to help keep seals pliable so they don't leak. I think this is what Tahoe SC was refering to when he wrote "lube" so technically you're right mikequin it isn't lube but I can understand how Tahoe SC might make the connection and in Water Wetters literature it says "cleans and lubricates water pump seals".

Water Wetter's claim is that it will lower your operating temp by up to 30 degrees because of approx 50% better heat transfer over a water and glycol mix. The reason they advertise this is for drag racers that are running smaller rads or possibly without a fan so they can run cooler longer and enable them to run more timing advance without detonation. Water Wetters boiling boint is actually lower than a water and glycol mix but can be raised by using a higher pressure rad cap. If I remember correctly 1 psi = approx 3 degrees higher boiling temp or something like that.

It makes me laugh when the guys that have been turnin wrenches for "26 years" or so think that if it's not the way they know or were taught it can't be right and they're never wrong. Well guess what ?

quote:

ORIGINAL: mikequinn

use what you like!!! Distilled water is pure that why it has gone through the distilation process there is nothing other than pure water. Honda recommend it, I have used it for numerous years never had a problem with a cooling system yet on Motorcycle,

I really couldn't care less what you use, if you want to f**k up your prides and joy go ahead, and use straight water what do i know??

quote:

ORIGINAL: canadianF4i

Actually the reason you don't "kick the ass out of engines" when they're cold is because engine parts are designed with specific tolerances ie pistons to cyl block and because metal expands with heat these tolerances are greater when cold than hot. For example, if you were to rev the piss out of your bike, etc, when cold especially under load, you would or might get some piston slap, which over time would gradually get worse because of the piston "hammering" the cylinder walls (same idea with bearings). It has nothing to do with engine wear and everything to do with engine damage.

Having said that, todays engines are built with such small tolerances and similiar metals ie aluminum pistons and blocks that expand and contract at similiar rates so even when cold you are not likely to damage anything. Not to mention, think about the temp inside the combustion chamber when running and the RPM involved especially on today's engines, parts get hot quick. Personally I still would not rev my engine until about 150 degrees or so on the gauge but that's because there is no way of knowing how much wear the engine has or the tolerances and to ensure the oil is up to temp and protecting engine parts as designed. Bottom line is engines wear no matter what you do all you can do is maintain them and run a good quality oil and change it as recommended.

You are right about the thermostat being there to get to operating temp quicker but your reason is incorrect it's because the engine is designed to run more efficiently at operating temp resulting in fewer harmful exhaust emissions. Again nothing to do with engine wear. Racers don't care about emissions so they may not bother with thermostats or run with a hi flow one set at 165 degrees so they can run more timing advance, etc on a cooler engine and therefore make more power.

Just to clear this up, coolant has nothing directly to do with engine wear it's only purpose is to help control engine temp. It is the lubrication system that reduces engine wear coolant only helps keep the oil at an effective temp. Perhaps mikequin can explain to us why there are so many choices of viscosity of oil. So far as coolant Honda recommends "Pro Honda HP coolant or an equivalant ethylene glycol antifreeze containing corrosion protection inhibitors" at a "50% mixture with soft water" as do most manufacturers. Obviously if you were to race you would need to use Water Wetter or similiar for the safety of other riders/drivers and to comply with the rules but for any other time regular antifreeze would do the job just fine.

Like I said before mikequin you're knowledge is based in the past when blocks were cast iron and the metals that were used in the engine were less compatible. Maybe it is you that should go back to school and throw away your 30 yr old text books and join the rest of us in 2006. I'm guessing your 8 yrs with Honda racing was in the 80's because so far I have heard nothing that a recent Honda racing tech would say that or you've been misinformed for a very long time.

Anyways I'm done trying to explain this to mikequin as most guys like him are so pig headed no matter how many times you prove to them they are wrong they still don't believe it. I recommend you guys look up some recent engine cooling and lubrication theory (car or bike doesn't matter principles are the same) and find out for yourselves because opinions are like assholes everyones got one.

quote:

ORIGINAL: canadianF4i

Worried you might make some enemies on the board by your unedited post does this sound familiar ?

"what a tosser you really are!!! your the stereo typical yank/canadian know all bigger and better than anyone else"

What a wus! afraid to say what he thinks because ppl might not like him.

All I was trying to point out is; I am not some wet behind the ears mechanic working in some back woods shop. With all the training/experience I've had I also think I have a pretty good understanding of engine operating basics such as cooling and oiling systems you arrogant ass. It is you that was bragging about your education and how the trade is going to shit because only guy's like you know anything and how you even have letters behind your name. Well I got some more letters to add BS and FU.