RE: synthetic oil, true or false???
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RE: synthetic oil, true or false??? - 9/10/2006 9:02:36 AM
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Oelhunden
Posts: 52
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Denmark, Europe
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Well, after I changed my oil to full synthetic, it rattles more at lower RPM´s when the engine is cold.
I do not know what kind of oil was on before, but it started after the change.
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Thomas Jensen
CBR1000F ´94, purple/black, KN-filter and laser slip-on´s
Denmark, Europe
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RE: synthetic oil, true or false??? - 9/10/2006 10:52:02 AM
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TimBucTwo
Posts: 608
Joined: 6/13/2006
From: Upstate NY, USA
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I can't view the thread, Oil ain't oil!!!, for some reason so I don't know what was said.
I will repeat that, it is very important to use only motorcycle oil. The transmission crushes the lubricating spheroids in the oil reducing it in only 300 miles.
I have only used this type of oil and I have almost 40k miles on the bike and change the oil about every 4k miles with absolutely no loss. The book says 8k between changes.
I have also read in bike magazines that you can't switch back from synthetic once you have made the switch or you will rune the engine. I can't find anywhere what will happen. It doesn’t make sense to me.
Only use products that say that they are OK for motorcycles. STP and similar products will bath the clutch plates and cause the clutch to slip.
I use a synthetic blend 20/40 in my bike.
I had a car that had Quaker State oil in it and it trashed my engine. I checked the oil level and the oil looked funny. I told my ex-wife to have it changed and she said it had only 1,500 miles on it. I told her to change it anyway. On her way to the shop on a cold morning the engine locked up. The cause was that Quaker State is a paraffin-based oil and some batches turn to wax in the cold. I was on the phone with Quaker State corporate and they basically laughed in my face. I only wanted to get the $300 that I spent to rebuild the engine. They knew it was their product but told me that I could not prove it because they had talked to the lab and they said that after 1,500 miles the oil could not be traced back to them. They have had this type of trouble in the past and now they were trying to sweep it under the rug again. I had to place the engine block in a pan on top of a wood stove to melt the wax out of the oil lines. I had to cut the oil out of the pan with a putty knife. I told corporate that I would spread the word. DO NOT USE QUAKER STATE OIL.
Since my Quaker State problem I have talk to and heard of other people who have had engines trashed by Quaker State oil. DO NOT USE QUAKER STATE OIL.
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RE: synthetic oil, true or false??? - 9/10/2006 2:56:30 PM
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andrewmr
Posts: 36
Joined: 6/29/2006
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WOW..... the amount of mis-information in this thread is staggering.
Yes, you can go back and forth between mineral based oil and synthetic oil.
Do not use mineral based group two or three automotive oils in your motorcycle. The VII's (viscosity index improvers) they use are consumed by the shear loads in our gearboxes. And to make matters worse some of them use/add molybdenum to their base and that isn't good for our wet clutches.
FWIW, the way my math works out the cost of synthetic oils over the proper motorcycle oil is only a couple bucks a quart. Which works out to less than 10 bucks an oil change. Assuming you do that once a year (I know some of you may ride more miles than one oil change in a year) then I think the additional protection of the synthetic becomes a no brainer. Synthetics handle heat much better than conventional oils and is a big benefit in turbo charged and air cooled applications. There are several other advantages to using Synthetic Oils. Synthetic oils have a higher VI than mineral base oils, which means they require far fewer VII’s to achieve the same results. Synthetics have better resistance to thinning at high temperatures and thickening at low temperatures. Synthetics have a much higher film strength than mineral based oils, so it takes a lot longer for the oil to drain completely off your bearings and into your sump, which is a very good thing for those of us that don’t ride every week.
AND, Mobil One is not a true synthetic. I'm not saying it's not a good oil, it is. I'm just saying it is not on par with the likes of Redline, Amsoil or Motul.....
Someone mentioned burning oil. There are a couple of things to consider. The first the proper control of the oil by the rings (oil). The second is the flash point of the oil being used. It’s entirely possible that changing oil to one with a higher flash point can significantly reduce the amount of oil being burned. It won’t mask a problem with pistons rings, but it can make a difference.
Now, go check your oil and go for a ride……………
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RE: synthetic oil, true or false??? - 9/10/2006 2:59:12 PM
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Stray Cat
Posts: 365
Joined: 6/5/2006
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quote:
STP and similar products will bath the clutch plates and cause the clutch to slip.
Interesting. What are you baseing this on? I've used the STP additive in several different bikes for many, many miles and have never once experienced clutch slippage. In fact it has always not only made shifting better, but also made for smoother clutch engagement.
My current oil that I've used for over 20K mile in three different bikes is Shell Rotella Syn with a bottle of blue STP. No friction modifiers (which does cause clutch slippage) and great protection against shear and heat related break down, as most all syn oils have.
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RE: synthetic oil, true or false??? - 9/10/2006 3:41:03 PM
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canadianF4i
Posts: 142
Joined: 8/20/2006
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Oelhunden
Synthetic oil does transfer noise/vibration more easily than dino oil that's probably why you heard it more after the change.
Synthetic oil doesn't (noticebly) reduce oil consumption compared to dino oil of the same rating ie 10W30. Oil burning is caused by oil getting by the piston rings and/or valve seals leaking so switching to synthetic wouldn't make a difference but uping the viscosity would help ie going from 10W30 to 20W50. The benefit of using synthetic oil vs dino in an oil burning engine comes from the fact that synthetic oils when burnt don't put off the hydrocarbon emissions that dino does. Helpful to know if your state/province has emission testing and you have a oil burning engine.
chesthing
Do Not add Engine Restore (or similiar) to your bike it will wreak havoc on your clutch.
Synthetic oil is not a gimmick it lasts longer, is more stable at hotter temp, is more reliable at extreme cold temps, etc, overall it is better.
What you need to decide is; is it necessary for my application/use? My answer to this is "no" for the following reasons reasons; I don't race, I don't rev past 9000RPM regularly, I change my oil and filter every 3000km, I don't spend alot of time in stop and go traffic and my bike, although I like it, is a $6000CAD bike and in my opinion not a huge investment. Adding an extra 10,000km (for example) to the lifespan of the engine by paying the extra to use synthetic when I'll probably only keep it 1 more season before I upgrade doesn't make sense to me. Now if I was riding a $28,000CAD Aprilia or planning on keeping my bike for 50,000km+ then yeah, I'd definitley use synthetic.
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RE: synthetic oil, true or false??? - 9/10/2006 3:45:02 PM
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canadianF4i
Posts: 142
Joined: 8/20/2006
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I must have been typing while andrewmr was posting because it looks like we agree on alot of the same things.
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RE: synthetic oil, true or false??? - 9/11/2006 4:07:13 PM
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BackTalk
Posts: 81
Joined: 8/20/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: chesthing
This oil discussion made me think to check the oil - it's been 2,500 miles since changing it, and I had to add 2/3 quart! I went and bought some $8 mobil 1 fully syn motorcycle oil tonite and replaced the dino oil - I'm not used to owning a vehicle that uses oil and am hoping this will stop it. Who knows, maybe I'll change my opinion - if it uses it at the same rate I'll definately go back.
Dude, Why would you put $6 a qt. oil in something that leakes or burn's it. This will NOT stop the leak. If anything it will get worse. I use Amsoil in my bikes and my 4x4. I have found it will help keep my bikes running cooler. When you go syn. You need to buy an oil filter to match it. I know a fram filter will f@^k up in 500 miles or less. In the cold weather we have here in the Rockies it dosen't get thick over nite and starts oiling much faster than standard oil will. I use syn. grease in my transfer case and the pumpkins in my 4x4, and can tell a great difference
My 2 cents, bt
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SemperFi
87 CBR Hurricane 1000
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e232/jlazyh/290.gif
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RE: synthetic oil, true or false??? - 9/12/2006 1:32:44 AM
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Illushun
Posts: 745
Joined: 3/26/2006
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What would the forums opinion be on that Lucas oil stabilizer. Just curious.
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RE: synthetic oil, true or false??? - 9/12/2006 7:13:59 AM
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peterk
Posts: 152
Joined: 6/16/2006
From: Blue Mountains, NSW, Australia
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Hey BackTalk just been lookin at the pics of your ride, its in good nick, is that original or you done stuff to it, how many k's/miles???
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Deus ex machina
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RE: synthetic oil, true or false??? - 9/12/2006 8:55:38 AM
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BackTalk
Posts: 81
Joined: 8/20/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: peterk
Hey BackTalk just been lookin at the pics of your ride, its in good nick, is that original or you done stuff to it, how many k's/miles???
Thanks for the props. It is bone stock and I just turned 54,000 miles. I have a cam chain tensioner giving me a little problem now. I will replace it this week.
BT
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SemperFi
87 CBR Hurricane 1000
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e232/jlazyh/290.gif
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RE: synthetic oil, true or false??? - 12/25/2006 12:37:55 AM
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WhiteHawk
Posts: 92
Joined: 12/22/2006
From: Michigan, USA
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There is alot of info on the net. Synthetic oils hold up to in high temperatures, they maintain there weight qualitys better. I have actually done oil studies to increase oil change intervals using synthetic on a Dodge Intrepid I use to own, it could go 6k miles with no significant wear metals, dilution, water, and still had additive left. Try doing that with mineral oil, only old ladies would do such a thing.
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RE: synthetic oil, true or false??? - 12/25/2006 2:19:11 AM
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Trips
Posts: 801
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: Perth (Western Australia)
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For about $60 you can find out for CERTAIN if Synthetic Oil is for you.
1. Run ya favourite Dino Oil for 5000k's
2. Drain Oil and take sample to testing Lab that does testing for fleets etc (Costs about $30)
3. They will give you a report on Viscosity breakdown, contaminates etc.
4. Run Synthetic for 5000k's
5. Test again and compare results.
If results are a massive difference that you are hard on oil and need to switch to synthetic. If there is little difference than you can be safe in the knowledqe that you can run Dino.
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Remember the light at the end of the tunnel may be an oncoming train!
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RE: synthetic oil, true or false??? - 12/25/2006 10:56:57 AM
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WhiteHawk
Posts: 92
Joined: 12/22/2006
From: Michigan, USA
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http://www.blackstone-labs.com/
I used this place. $20 for normal tests, extra $10 for TBN (measures additives left, good for helping out on extending your intervals). Pretty nice because, they will email the results immediately, turn around is 1-2 once they recieve the sample.
Read their Technical Articles! Useful info, possibly can be considered not biased (ehem, Amsoil, ehem).
< Message edited by WhiteHawk -- 12/25/2006 10:58:04 AM >
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RE: synthetic oil, true or false??? - 12/31/2006 4:46:02 PM
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waz57
Posts: 389
Joined: 5/22/2006
From: Gladstone, Queensland Australia
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I have used plain old 20 W 50 on my 92 but the clutch slipped a fair bit at 7 grand so went to semi synthetic 10 W 40 and havtn looked back. Just got back froma 5,000 Kl trip motor was a bit noisy so dropped the oil yesterday and refilled with Semi Syn and rattles gone
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