Leaning and Countersteer

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Leaning and Countersteer - 9/21/2006 4:31:25 PM    1badeg Posts: 83 Joined: 5/1/2006 Status: offline What's going on everyone. I've been riding for about 3 yrs. now and I was wondering.....what is and why do you countersteer in a lean? I take corners pretty hard but get a little nervous when I try to countersteer. Post #: 1

RE: Leaning and Countersteer - 9/22/2006 10:04:54 PM    gixxereater   Posts: 1492 Joined: 5/23/2006 Status: offline Counter steering is the only way to get your bike to turn with any speed. Even a bicycle does it if you are pedaling very fast. Turn right, bike leans and therefore arcs left. Basically, the front tire is trying to drive out from under you and in turn leans the bike in the desired direction. If you are taking a corner........you've already counter steered to get that far. Counter steer more, and you will turn sharper. Amazingly enough though......if you look at pics of a rider taking a corner hard, the wheel is actually turned the direction of the corner although you wouldnt think so. It a simple thing like physics that make riding so entertaining. Good luck. _____________________________ Ambition is a poor excuse for not having enough sense to be lazy (in reply to 1badeg) Post #: 2

RE: Leaning and Countersteer - 9/22/2006 10:38:43 PM    CBRchica Posts: 254 Joined: 4/21/2006 Status: offline COUNTERSTEERING: Countersteering is the process of pushing the handlebars in the opposite direction you wish to turn. Whether you know it or not, you have been countersteering if you ride a bicycle or a motorcycle. To practice countersteering, go to an open lot or a deserted road. Accelerate to 30 mph or so, and remove your left hand from the bars. Now, gently push your right hand forward. The bike will automatically “fall” to the right. PUSH RIGHT - GO RIGHT. PUSH LEFT - GO LEFT. Countersteering does not bring you around the turn so much as it “initiates” the turn. Once the bike begins to “fall in”, you then make the necessary bar and body inputs to control the turn. You also use countersteering to pull out of a turn. Next time you’re on an on-ramp, you can practice this. As the road begins to straighten out, accelerate and push on the bar in the direction you want to go, which will most likely be the left bar. You are making a right turn, but to merge with traffic you want to go left, so you will PUSH on the LEFT handlebar. Countersteering is a much more effective way to steer a motorcycle than shifting body weight. If something suddenly enters your path, and there is no way to stop in time, countersteering may save your life. The trick is to look past the object to your escape route, and to quickly countersteer in the proper direction. Many new riders, and even seasoned riders who do not practice countersteering, will turn away from the object, which just brings them closer to it!! CONTROL: One thing racing teaches you is to control your bike. I never realized just how much you can "throw" a motorcycle around without it biting you back. Don’t get me wrong, I am not recommending you go out and start weaving and swerving all over the place. You should, however, practice evasive maneuvers. One that I like to do is driving straight toward a manhole cover, and swerving at the last possible instant. Your swerve should be a firm push on the bars one way, quickly followed by a firm push in the opposite direction. Do not switch lanes - simply miss the manhole cover or paper or whatever you have chosen. If you have chosen a manhole cover, make sure you don't make the hard input while you are on it. They tend to be very slippery. Also, I do not recommend doing this in traffic. It tends to scare the people around you, and can actually cause an accident if the car next to you also swerves. LOOK WHERE YOU WANT TO GO: In racing, the motto is “look past to go past”. What this means is that if you are following someone that you want to pass, don’t look at them. Look at that little piece of track that he has left open, and go to it. In an emergency situation on the street, riders often fixate on whatever it is they want to avoid. Since the tendency is to go where you look, this brings the rider toward the object. If you are practicing good street riding behavior, you will be constantly scanning the area around you, and continually providing yourself with escape routes. If something suddenly appears in front of you, simply look to your escape route, and make the appropriate bar inputs (remember - COUNTER STEER!) DON’T PANIC! Practice, Practice, Practice ... Only when you continually practice maximum braking, emergency swerving, looking ahead, etc., will you not panic when faced with an emergency situation. Riding on the track will make you a better rider because you are constantly testing the limits of yourself and your bike. You will notice that you are much more confident at street speeds after you’ve been at the track. By incorporating these new skills into your street riding, you will be better prepared to handle an emergency situation. The trap you must avoid is doing everything on the street that you do at the track. At the track, you can explore your limits. On the street, you should always leave yourself an “out”. I also firmly be (in reply to 1badeg) Post #: 3

RE: Leaning and Countersteer - 9/25/2006 8:40:20 AM    1badeg Posts: 83 Joined: 5/1/2006 Status: offline Thanks everyone for awesome replies. (in reply to CBRchica) Post #: 4

RE: Leaning and Countersteer - 10/2/2006 2:11:39 PM    Jaybird180 Posts: 2668 Joined: 5/12/2006 Status: offline Good writeup and promotion of the bene's of track riding CBRChica _____________________________ Track/Street 02'' F4i ZG Dbl Bbbl, Galfer SS Lines, PC3r, Muzzy s/o, NRC cover, ShiftMinder(WTF?), Speedbleeders, Vortex sliders, fenderless, GP Shift Ohlins, Racetech, Showa Suspension Don''t go in the forest if you don''t want to go to Granny' (in reply to 1badeg) Post #: 5

RE: Leaning and Countersteer - 10/5/2006 6:23:52 PM    Munson Posts: 497 Joined: 3/22/2006 From: Brooklyn Status: offline quote: ORIGINAL: 1badeg I take corners pretty hard but get a little nervous when I try to countersteer. If you take corners hard, you're countersteering - it's the only way to turn a bike at speed. The key word here is try. If you're like most people, you've been countersteering since soon after you started riding a bicycle as a kid, and it's long since become something you do naturally, without thinking about it. It's only because you're consciously thinking about it that you're getting nervous. Relax - you've been doing this most of your life. Just remember to look where you want to go, not where you want to avoid. (in reply to 1badeg) Post #: 6

RE: Leaning and Countersteer - 10/11/2006 1:19:38 AM    woodyracing Posts: 1326 Joined: 5/3/2006 From: Meridian, MS Status: offline ditto on all that, everybody that rides a motorcycle countersteers but most don't have a clue that they are doing it and a lot of riders would get confused if you mention it to them. One guy I met at a bike shop that had been riding for like 20 years and had a sportbike for 2 or 3 thought I was crazy when countersteering came up. The guy never had a clue he was doing it until that conversation _____________________________ Selling my 600RR CLICK HERE! (in reply to Munson) Post #: 7

RE: Leaning and Countersteer - 10/16/2006 11:50:20 AM    Jaybird180 Posts: 2668 Joined: 5/12/2006 Status: offline Some experienced riders even think that you push down on the bars. Trust me, I've tried....it doesn't work very well. _____________________________ Track/Street 02'' F4i ZG Dbl Bbbl, Galfer SS Lines, PC3r, Muzzy s/o, NRC cover, ShiftMinder(WTF?), Speedbleeders, Vortex sliders, fenderless, GP Shift Ohlins, Racetech, Showa Suspension Don''t go in the forest if you don''t want to go to Granny' (in reply to woodyracing) Post #: 8

RE: Leaning and Countersteer - 10/16/2006 8:50:39 PM    sparda1123   Posts: 69 Joined: 8/7/2006 Status: offline found a good vid for this on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwcI_Jvugg4 i think its a pretty good example for counter steering check it out (in reply to Jaybird180) Post #: 9

RE: Leaning and Countersteer - 10/23/2006 4:28:40 PM    Jon Boy Posts: 84 Joined: 8/30/2006 Status: offline Ok you folks seem pretty knowledgeable. I have a question. I have been riding my bike for a short time, although I used to race motocross. My question is, how or what is the proper way to take a curve at a good speed. I don't care much for straightline fastness but I would love to be able to hang turns fast. It is just exciting. I have tried pushing myself a little bit each time. I find that I get scared when I start to drift out or in and I learned the other day that you don't want to let off the gas leaning over in turn to much. Scary!!! Any videos or books that might tell how to do this properly? (in reply to sparda1123) Post #: 10

RE: Leaning and Countersteer - 10/23/2006 7:06:22 PM    woodyracing Posts: 1326 Joined: 5/3/2006 From: Meridian, MS Status: offline by far the best riding technique book i've read is Nick Ienatsch's "Sport Riding Techniques" Nick is the primary instructor @ Freddie Spencer's school and definitely knows his stuff there is really so much that goes into taking a corner that it would be impossible to say everything in one post body positioning, rider inputs, tire feedback, lean angle, looking through the turns, trail braking, proper lines etc thats why there are so many books on the subject I'd also recommend doing a trackday to practice cornering skills, MUCH SAFER and most have control riders to help you with all the stuff i mentioned above _____________________________ Selling my 600RR CLICK HERE! (in reply to Jon Boy) Post #: 11

RE: Leaning and Countersteer - 10/23/2006 7:14:27 PM    Jon Boy Posts: 84 Joined: 8/30/2006 Status: offline Ok I will have to check around and see if I can find that book. I realize that there is alot going on when taking turns. I would love to try and find a track around to ride on! The nearest one is probably Atlanta though. I don't know of any close. Will have to start asking and checking around though! (in reply to woodyracing) Post #: 12

RE: Leaning and Countersteer - 10/2/2007 4:58:03 AM    null84   Posts: 49 Joined: 9/11/2007 Status: offline i found a awesome link for counter steering. I would like someone confirm this though. Do I keep pushing the handle bar and leaning the whole turn? or I push before the turn and lean the whole turn? (in reply to Jon Boy) Post #: 13

RE: Leaning and Countersteer - 10/2/2007 8:29:41 AM    Jaybird180 Posts: 2668 Joined: 5/12/2006 Status: offline Countersteering is what's initiating the bike to lean.  If you look at a turn in slow-motion the wheel quickly deflects into the turn and then it's neutralized through the turn. _____________________________ Track/Street 02'' F4i ZG Dbl Bbbl, Galfer SS Lines, PC3r, Muzzy s/o, NRC cover, ShiftMinder(WTF?), Speedbleeders, Vortex sliders, fenderless, GP Shift Ohlins, Racetech, Showa Suspension Don''t go in the forest if you don''t want to go to Granny' (in reply to null84) Post #: 14

RE: Leaning and Countersteer - 10/2/2007 6:01:36 PM    Acara1796 Posts: 209 Joined: 9/13/2007 Status: offline As always, I will recommend Lee Parks book "Total Control". It explains the physics of it all in terms us non-sciencetist can understand. _____________________________ Kim, IL 07 ST1300 - husband 06 ST1300 - mine 99 XR100 - ours 91 CBR600F2 - mine ;) 88 Hawk GT - husband 82 Silverwing Interstate - mine 78 Hawk 400 TII - mine ..many others that have come & gone www.motocentral.com (in reply to 1badeg) Post #: 15

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