RE: Last chance advice before purchase
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RE: Last chance advice before purchase - 11/5/2006 3:22:02 AM
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CrF450r420
Posts: 54
Joined: 10/23/2006
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I don't care I'm up for a fight if this calls it out, but if you non-dirt people keep talking trash I'm going to E-smack you. First off why don't you come out and do some 80 foot jumps with me or better yet do some stoppies with me on dirt. If you never have never ridden on dirt before I now know you have no f'ing clue. Talk crap here and talk crap there, but you are just f'ing stupid. I started on dirt and more than no problem with going to street. I know why and if you don't understand you never will until you come out to a dirt track and let me stuff you in a berm. I'm looking forward to it. This topic has turned into BS from stuck up street riders that couldn't move to dirt because you can't ride dirt with your head up your ass. If you do I and others are set to rip your off. SHUT THE HELL UP. YOU HAVE NO F'ING CLUE.
Just today I was talking a friend that drags his street bike and now almost nothing else. You know what we went over that he learned after some time of racing? We went over something ever dirtbike rider knows. It's because of technique. On a dirt bike you have to keep your elbow up for control in corners. He just learned that you do that on a street bike at the track so you know you can turn the throttle fully. Well, on a dirt bike you keep your arm up high enough that you can twist the throttle completely without dropping you elbow. You keep it high enough that your wrist can do it all. He is a guy that has never raced a street bike for years before he learned something I've known for years. Get your head out of your AZZ. As stated before, some of the best racers right now started on dirt. Is there a reason for this? Yes, even if you don't understand.
As for the comment made earlier by someone trying to relate rally racing to formula 1 racing. You are wrong too. The saying is, in normal racing you see one corner a thousand times in rally you see a thousand corners once. You don't think a guy that goes around a corner they have never been around before sideways with a 3000 foot cliff next to them can't handle a formula 1 car you should do drugs because that is the only reason to explain yourself.
I know you are all going to try and flame me, but I tell you what, if all street guys come out into the dirt. I'll be glad to run you over a berm and sling dirt in your teeth. After that I'll be glad to compare the differences in our times from one another on dirt and street.
I guess I'm just special. yeah right. I was doing 70 in a corner on street bike the second day I had it. I'm no bad ass, but I'm over this crap I'm reading from you self centered AZZes that don't know better.
< Message edited by CrF450r420 -- 11/5/2006 3:33:06 AM >
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The Dickens
'06 CBR600RR
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RE: Last chance advice before purchase - 11/5/2006 5:21:01 PM
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Kewl Breeze
Posts: 2128
Joined: 8/9/2006
From: ATL GA State Pen
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tahoe SC
check it dude...while rider error does contribute to most of the accidents, there are in case sh!t situations...such as...
accidentally giving it too much gas in a turn, letting the clutch out too early and other street dangers, that having a sportbike vs. something less and/or smaller, would put you in the hospital more so than otherwise...
so cc does make a difference, the type of bike does make a difference and regardless of how mature you are, you can't control everything...so to minimize the chance of getting bitten by these uncontrollable situations, you minimize things you can control, like the size of the bike and the cc's...
i know plenty people who are so called "mature" riders, with liter bikes, only to have little things like gravel in the road, etc...with less experience, highsiding them or other ways of tossing them on their arse...
a rider with experience and a bigger bike will handle these situations much much better than a mature noob in the same situation...
but in the end, someone is going to get whatever bike he/she wants...so just let them...
it'll take longer from them to progress and what not, but that's just the way it is.
Very well said bra! You should have been a diplomat since you said it in a way that no matter what you're view is you can't take offense :)
No matter what one believes, it seems to me it should be common sense that having ridden a bike of any kind will have helped one way or another in riding another type of bike ... wether that be a huge benefit or not is debatable but it is beneficial nonetheless. I rode dirt for a long time b4 street and I can say for me at least it was very very helpful in getting the basics of moto down w/out many of the risks to learn the same things on street.
Although everyone has their own opinion, it seems the above would hold true for cc's as well. I may be wrong but it seems to me that common sense would tell you that without experience, more power = more risk in most situations regardless of maturity .. unless someone's trying to justify their own reasoning.
Biggest problem I see when people debate this topic is the "Maturity" / "Level Headed" / "Repect" thing ... as Tahoe kind of said, remember Maturity/Respect DOES NOT EQUAL EXPERIENCE.
p.s. Have you bought a street bike yet?
_____________________________
 Wisdom ceases to be wisdom when it becomes too proud to weep, too grave to laugh, and too selfish to seek other than itself. - Kahlil Gibran
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RE: Last chance advice before purchase - 11/5/2006 5:38:03 PM
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dmx
Posts: 27
Joined: 11/2/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: quil900
quote:
ORIGINAL: dmx
quote:
ORIGINAL: simo1000rr
I'd have no problem telling a newcomer i knew had a good head on their shoulders that its perfectly feasible to have a 600 for your first bike (though id recommend a cbr600f NOT an rr), but i think it would be downright irresponsible to recomend jumping straight on to a litre bike. Criminal in fact.
Not trying to start a fight or anything....
When you say cbrf are you speaking of f4i? I am assuming yes, in that case the f4i is a quicker bike why would you recommend an f4i over the rr? Other than the sheer comfortablility of the bike and the less upright/ hunched over stance there isn't that big of a difference in the bikes. The 1/4 mile of the f4i is faster than that of the rr.
The simple fact of these bikes is that with 70 horsepower these bikes are prone to come up! Just because you get a bike that has 100 hp vs. a 150 hp bike still means that they both will pop up when you yank the throttle. In my year of riding the bike never came up except for when I yanked on the throttle. As you learn you learn to push yourself when you need to. In my crew of about 10 riders they all had their bikes longer than I had mine and they were curves ahead of me but I didn't try to stay up with them, rather I tried to keep myself in my lane at a comfortable speed that I didn't feel nervous at. Now if I was half retarded and decided I wanted to keep up with them I would have been a lump on the side of a tree on one of the curves. But I wasn't because I rode within my limits trying to make myself better and ride within my limits. Ride within your limits and the bike will keep you in those limits! One big thing is that just like when you are in your car you need to siphon through the things that could happen in any given situation.
um, im talking about the cbr600f, whatever you wanna call it in america or wherever you are, the bike is never in a million years quicker than the rr! granted - there isnt a lot in them though. as for me recomending the f over the rr, yeah, comfort and riding position has a hella lot to do with it. the head down arse up position of the rr encourages a comitted riding style, while the f is a lot more 'sit up and beg', with the rider sitting in a position which helps him read the road a little better.
as for the bike coming up (which i assume you mean wheelie), first and foremost, rr's dont do it off the throttle, but that really is besides the point - how is it when i write a post talking of the dangers of a noobie jumping onto a litre bike and trying to control the power delivery you hop aboard and start talkin about god damn wheelies?
im not gonna get drawn into a debate over this cos its idiotic - you give 10 people who've just passed their tests a 1000cc sportsbike and you might as well give at least 3 of them body bags, and the other 7 some first aid kits.
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RE: Last chance advice before purchase - 11/5/2006 8:00:52 PM
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quil900
Posts: 231
Joined: 7/9/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: dmx
um, im talking about the cbr600f, whatever you wanna call it in america or wherever you are, the bike is never in a million years quicker than the rr! granted - there isnt a lot in them though. as for me recomending the f over the rr, yeah, comfort and riding position has a hella lot to do with it. the head down arse up position of the rr encourages a comitted riding style, while the f is a lot more 'sit up and beg', with the rider sitting in a position which helps him read the road a little better.
im not gonna get drawn into a debate over this cos its idiotic - you give 10 people who've just passed their tests a 1000cc sportsbike and you might as well give at least 3 of them body bags, and the other 7 some first aid kits.
The bike is in a million years quicker! Its in motorcyclist magazine where they put each bike to the test and show all of the figures! The (as they are known here in the u.s.) f4i is quicker off the line than a rr. The speed is less on a f4i but the actual quarter mile time on the f4i is faster than the rr. The hard numbers go like this- 01 f4i- 95.5hp 42.6lb 10.71@126.7. The 06'rr tested posted 105.6hp 44.8lb 10.87@128.5. I don't know what other information you would want to show that it is or isn't any faster than the rr. As far as there not being "a lot in them though" they aren't that drastically different! Also the weight of the bikes goes 435 f4i 431 rr. So with this information let me also add that all statements are taking in account corrected weather conditions in the same sea-level standard conditions. In my opinion this is why so many people go with the f4i is because it is by no means a slow bike (as both bike stock it beats the RR!) and because they are very comfortable bike not only for rider but passenger as well!
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RE: Last chance advice before purchase - 11/6/2006 2:49:19 AM
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Blue Fox
Posts: 4575
Joined: 7/14/2006
From: Las Cruces, NM
Status: offline
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quote:
I don't care I'm up for a fight if this calls it out, but if you non-dirt people keep talking trash I'm going to E-smack you. First off why don't you come out and do some 80 foot jumps with me or better yet do some stoppies with me on dirt. If you never have never ridden on dirt before I now know you have no f'ing clue. Talk crap here and talk crap there, but you are just f'ing stupid. I started on dirt and more than no problem with going to street. I know why and if you don't understand you never will until you come out to a dirt track and let me stuff you in a berm. I'm looking forward to it. This topic has turned into BS from stuck up street riders that couldn't move to dirt because you can't ride dirt with your head up your ass. If you do I and others are set to rip your off. SHUT THE HELL UP. YOU HAVE NO F'ING CLUE.
Just today I was talking a friend that drags his street bike and now almost nothing else. You know what we went over that he learned after some time of racing? We went over something ever dirtbike rider knows. It's because of technique. On a dirt bike you have to keep your elbow up for control in corners. He just learned that you do that on a street bike at the track so you know you can turn the throttle fully. Well, on a dirt bike you keep your arm up high enough that you can twist the throttle completely without dropping you elbow. You keep it high enough that your wrist can do it all. He is a guy that has never raced a street bike for years before he learned something I've known for years. Get your head out of your AZZ. As stated before, some of the best racers right now started on dirt. Is there a reason for this? Yes, even if you don't understand.
As for the comment made earlier by someone trying to relate rally racing to formula 1 racing. You are wrong too. The saying is, in normal racing you see one corner a thousand times in rally you see a thousand corners once. You don't think a guy that goes around a corner they have never been around before sideways with a 3000 foot cliff next to them can't handle a formula 1 car you should do drugs because that is the only reason to explain yourself.
I know you are all going to try and flame me, but I tell you what, if all street guys come out into the dirt. I'll be glad to run you over a berm and sling dirt in your teeth. After that I'll be glad to compare the differences in our times from one another on dirt and street.
I guess I'm just special. yeah right. I was doing 70 in a corner on street bike the second day I had it. I'm no bad ass, but I'm over this crap I'm reading from you self centered AZZes that don't know better.
Whoa!!! Calm down there killer. This is an argument, not a monkey shit fight. So just cool it there buddy.
The reason I used the rally racing/forumla 1 racing comparo is simply this. THEY ARE TWO DIFFERENT TYPES OF RACING. You cannot sit there and honestly think that the lack of traction on a dirt track, sliding sideways around corners is the same as an open-wheeled, asphault track, perfect-line racing is the same.
Another reason I used that comparo is because I have a LONG background in rally racing. My first car was a 89 Dodge Shadow Turbo turned Rally car. I went to local rally competitions, placed pretty decently, then started traveling (with my Shadow) and entering races all over the southwest. No they weren't huge events, no Colin McRae's and the such, but they were high speed, no traction, sliding sideways, dirt road rally races.
Now that you know this, I attended a Skip Barber Racing School (not the driving school, the RACING school). Cost a pretty penny, but what the hell. The most fun I've ever had in a week. The first couple of days, they couldn't stop me from ripping up my rear tires from sliding around corners (thankfully there wasn't a limit on tires you could use). Why was I doing this? Because of my rally background. Because dirt road rally racing and aspha
< Message edited by Blue Fox -- 11/6/2006 2:50:03 AM >
_____________________________
Want the LED headlamps? http://cbrforum.com/m_681535/tm.htm Powder Coating TOO!
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RE: Last chance advice before purchase - 11/6/2006 9:37:10 AM
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abadfish
Posts: 771
Joined: 6/26/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Blue Fox
So to sum up, yes, dirt may help. Dirt WILL help. You obviously haven't ridden dirt seriously or enough to understand that so please stop making statements of which you know nothing about.
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But at the same time, NO ONE on here can claim that dirt riding experience is the missing link between a good rider and Valentino Rossi. Re-read the posts above....nobody here wsas making that claim.
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You DO NOT have to have dirt experience to become a Superbike champion. again, nobody was making that claim. What was said is that the dirt backgrounds that Nicky and Vale have is integral to their current riding.
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'05 600RR Purple/Black
 
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RE: Last chance advice before purchase - 11/6/2006 11:52:30 AM
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Tahoe SC
Posts: 5876
Joined: 8/24/2005
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DMX...please learn to use the quote function properly!!!!!!!
CRF..blah blah blah...aka internet tough guy...why you getting all po'd...no one is saying dirt doesn't help street riding or any of that stuff...take your meds and chill out...no e-smacking allowed. yes you're very special that you can go 70 mph in turns...on your second day on the bike...just shows how reckless you are...be careful...
simo...and whoever else agrees with you...yes the rider controls the bike...BUT NOT 100% of the time...so for those who keep emphasizing...RIDER controls the bike...STOP...if that was true, then there would be virtually NO ACCIDENTS!
abadfish and kewl...SHADDUP...why? cause i said so! muahahhahahah...
and for everyone!!! when does a rider feel the MOST confidence ever! about 1 minute right before you crash!
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RE: Last chance advice before purchase - 11/6/2006 11:59:31 AM
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abadfish
Posts: 771
Joined: 6/26/2005
Status: offline
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Hey Tahoe......
oh and................
Let's hook on Thanksgiving so I can give you another
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'05 600RR Purple/Black
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RE: Last chance advice before purchase - 11/6/2006 10:12:49 PM
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molsen81
Posts: 29
Joined: 8/21/2006
Status: offline
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Thanks for all the advice, but I couldn't turn down the sweet deal on a "04 R6. The guy selling the 600rr kept jumping the price and I finally had enough.
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RE: Last chance advice before purchase - 11/6/2006 11:59:53 PM
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Blue Fox
Posts: 4575
Joined: 7/14/2006
From: Las Cruces, NM
Status: offline
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quote:
Dirt WILL help. You obviously haven't ridden dirt seriously or enough to understand that so please stop making statements of which you know nothing about.
This is what I was talking about. Saying that "Dirt WILL help." kind of comes off like you are saying that riders with dirt experience are superior to riders that have little or no dirt experience.
What WILL help new street riders that have ridden dirt bikes before is the fact that they were ON A MOTORCYCLE. It's not because it was a dirt bike, it's not because it was on dirt, it's the fact that it was a MOTORCYCLE. The experience on a MOTORCYCLE (no matter if it's dirt/street/cruiser/ etc.) is what helps you on the street, not because it's dirt. I was trying to get this point across earlier, but I guess I wasn't wording it correctly.
< Message edited by Blue Fox -- 11/7/2006 12:01:58 AM >
_____________________________
Want the LED headlamps? http://cbrforum.com/m_681535/tm.htm Powder Coating TOO!
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RE: Last chance advice before purchase - 11/7/2006 12:30:07 AM
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CrF450r420
Posts: 54
Joined: 10/23/2006
Status: offline
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Sorry guys, I had been out drinking all night before I wrote that and was over what I was reading. I'm still over it.
molsen81 enjoy your R6. The only problems I've ever known with Yamaha would be transmissions, but that was older bikes. Well, that and the carb falling off on the first 450 dirt bike they made.
Supermoto brings in every kind of bike racer and it is both a street and dirt event. Now, the last time I was up on it, a motocross rider was winning the championship. Odd? Not at all.
< Message edited by CrF450r420 -- 11/7/2006 12:31:11 AM >
_____________________________
The Dickens
'06 CBR600RR
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RE: Last chance advice before purchase - 11/7/2006 1:18:37 AM
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abadfish
Posts: 771
Joined: 6/26/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Blue Fox
This is what I was talking about. Saying that "Dirt WILL help." kind of comes off like you are saying that riders with dirt experience are superior to riders that have little or no dirt experience. I have never said dirt riders are superior to those who have little or no dirt experience. Please don't put words in my mouth!!
quote:
What WILL help new street riders that have ridden dirt bikes before is the fact that they were ON A MOTORCYCLE. It's not because it was a dirt bike, it's not because it was on dirt, it's the fact that it was a MOTORCYCLE. The experience on a MOTORCYCLE (no matter if it's dirt/street/cruiser/ etc.) is what helps you on the street, not because it's dirt. I was trying to get this point across earlier, but I guess I wasn't wording it correctly.
Yes, being on a motorcyle will help. No argument there. But you're still missing the point! Re-read what I said earlier. There are things dirt riders learn that become very second nature that street riders have difficulty (at least, at first) such as what to do when traction is lost. Any serious dirt rider knows exactly what I'm talking about. Dirt WILL help!
Look, its obvious you aren't a serious dirt rider or you wouldn't be arguing this point with me. So how can you pass a judgement on something that you can't speak firsthand about??????? Again, re-read what I wrote eariler. There's no dirt elitism going on here (or whatever you wish to call it).
< Message edited by abadfish -- 11/7/2006 1:36:00 AM >
_____________________________
'05 600RR Purple/Black
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