RE: new website!
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RE: new website! - 12/12/2006 1:24:56 AM
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bushmasterAR15
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+1 Improved. Add the link to your sig too
< Message edited by bushmasterAR15 -- 12/12/2006 1:28:14 AM >
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RE: new website! - 12/12/2006 9:55:11 AM
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rrasco
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oh yeah, thats a million times better, but you still have some ways to go still. keep it up. i also have web design experience, if you need any help with something, let me know.
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RE: new website! - 12/12/2006 10:20:33 AM
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Flip
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Much better man. Now, if you can code some cool buttons and ditch the text on the left side than you will be even better.
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RE: new website! - 12/12/2006 11:01:30 AM
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woot
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I have designed webpages before - my background is computer science - I'm very picky, and I usually get it my way. I've hired web developers in the past, they hated me, and I redid their work inhouse.
First the good news. You've done a good job picking colours, and creating content. You've made a nice layout that's pretty simple to navigate, and you've made your name visible on every page.
Now the stuff that needs work.
There are some spacing issues in different browsers. I looked under the hood and noticed its been done in MS Office. I have no beef with microsoft, but, their 'save for web' editting is really not designed for professional web pages. It's fine for a young persons webpage showing off their pet dog, however, it's not up to your current professional needs.
The first thing to avoid when creating a webpages is frames. You've done that... good.
The next thing to avoid when creating webpages is using tables for layout. It's a big no-no. It works well for certain situations, but not for a professional site. Unfortunately that's how MS has done it (because it's easier for it - not because it's the right way).
The next this to avoid is having the style sheet information on the page. It should be in a seperate .css file that all of the other pages refer to. This is purely a maintance issue - and beleive me - maintance is the REAL cost of a website, not the creation. A poorly planned website will cost you at least twice what it cost to have made before it's working properly, and keeping it running will cost more later.
Here's what I recommend. You've done a very good job laying out what you like and what you want to show off. This is pure gold. I wish I had this from all of the people who I've done work for. Most people have no clue what they want, and even more poorly describe what they know they want.
At this point you could hire very cheapily a young computer guy to create the webpage properly. They should do this webpage to meet web standards. IF they aren't doing it to standard find someone else. MS does not do it to standard, or anywhere close.
The second option is to learn how to properly code a webpage. It's not difficult at all. It's a very rigid framework and once you understand the basics you'll get it. The big bonus is that you'll be able to add content later in a few minutes, rather than finding the guy who made it and paying him to do it.
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RE: new website! - 12/12/2006 1:20:49 PM
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mdfirefighter
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^ +1000 Great advice!!!!!
MDFF
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RE: new website! - 12/12/2006 2:26:29 PM
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rrasco
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woot, pretty good advice.
why would you advise to not use tables? i use lots of tables, and if used properly, they can be great tools. are you suggesting to use DIVs for layout? while i can understand why you might choose an alternate layout method, i think for a novice webmaster it might be harder. IMO.
woody, who is your host? do you have access to a database with your hosting plan? once you begin to add products or content, you are really going to want your page to be dynamic and to get away from the hard coding of the site. this is where adding your content will get easy, and much much easier to manage down the road.
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RE: new website! - 12/12/2006 2:37:21 PM
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woot
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Tables aren't really meant for design, where Divs are. It is a bit of a wishy washy thing - there are a number of strange reasons not to use tables... the big one it's non-standard and never will be.
One of the big reasons is graceful degradation, and browser independance. A palm browser can't ignore tables, it can avoid div tags - meaning that the palm viewer will see the same content in a gracefully degraded way. A table on the other hand wouldn't.
I realize this sounds extremely pedantic... if for no other reason than maintance and flexibility use div tags.
On the otherhand - if you know your target audience perfectly, and you don't care if others can't see it properly, then yes use tables. I'm not be sarcastic either. That's the time and place.
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RE: new website! - 12/12/2006 2:47:09 PM
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rrasco
Posts: 5622
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my major concerns as far as audience when it comes to design are to make sure it works right in IE and FF, as well as views normal in a res of at least 1024x768.
my other reasoning is i dont have much experience with DIVs. while i would like to use them more because of their flexibility and capabilites, i just dont have the experience with them yet. so i have stuck to what i know for now. i dont really anticipate too much palm traffic to my sites either. i still stick to what i said though, for someone without any previous coding experience it would be more difficult. i guess it all depends on what you are specifically doing.
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RE: new website! - 12/12/2006 3:02:14 PM
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woot
Posts: 785
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From: NS, Canada
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I guess it depends for me I could do that site in a few divs.
Wrapper DIV ~700px
Top div (~400px)
side div (20em)
content div (remainder floated left into side div)
bottom div (~250px)
For me it's way easier... but that's me... and only because that's the way I was taught/learned how to do it - I fully appreciate your point.
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2000 CBR 600 F4
Full M4,
-1,+2 520,
Speedohealer (-11.4%), AutoCom Pro, Garmin Nuvi 360 GPS/MP3, Cobra FRS/GMRS , Vortex sliders, mirrored windscreen, Cortech bags and Aux Fuse box.
Safety wired and ready to go
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RE: new website! - 12/12/2006 3:14:15 PM
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rrasco
Posts: 5622
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and there is no better teacher than experience.
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RE: new website! - 12/12/2006 3:26:14 PM
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mdfirefighter
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Ah, the battle of tables and divs... I'll stay neutral here (I use both for different reasons). But I must admit that I am getting away from static coding and moving to ASPX and C# but thats part of my job so I have to adapt. Use what works, but I will conceed that divs and CSS were designed for eachother.
MDFF
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"This is gold one to gold two and three, split up, take them one on one." - Tron
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RE: new website! - 12/12/2006 5:15:20 PM
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woot
Posts: 785
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The point I guess is to seperate content from display... manage both seperately.
Yes - it's an epic fight... :D
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2000 CBR 600 F4
Full M4,
-1,+2 520,
Speedohealer (-11.4%), AutoCom Pro, Garmin Nuvi 360 GPS/MP3, Cobra FRS/GMRS , Vortex sliders, mirrored windscreen, Cortech bags and Aux Fuse box.
Safety wired and ready to go
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RE: new website! - 12/12/2006 5:21:36 PM
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woodyracing
Posts: 1326
Joined: 5/3/2006
From: Meridian, MS
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wow thanks for all the advice
I'm stuck with Microsoft Publisher until the end of the week, then I guess I'm gonna pick up a copy of dreamweaver
How did everybody learn this stuff? pick up some books and the software and dig in? take classes?
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RE: new website! - 12/12/2006 5:24:45 PM
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mdfirefighter
Posts: 658
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From: Huntingtown, MD (USA)
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Started as a hobby, got good, and now I can't get away from it. Sometimes I wish I would have picked something else. 
MDFF
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"This is gold one to gold two and three, split up, take them one on one." - Tron
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RE: new website! - 12/12/2006 6:12:06 PM
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rrasco
Posts: 5622
Joined: 3/6/2006
From: San Antonio, TX
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shit, i started making dragon ball z websites and such when i was in grade school. just been playing with computers ever since. i just used to browse websites and view the source to see how something was done.
learn a pc language like any other spoken language, learn the formation of sentences and how the language works, then you can pick up on more words (functions for pcs) as you go along. my collective knowledge is a cesspool from 10 years of mingling with computers.
like i already stated, there is no better teacher than experience.
if you need any specific help with anything, i would be willing to help you out and im sure some of the other guys wouldnt mind either.
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http://www.snackbar-games.com - Your Games, Your Site, Your Community
-You dumb bastard, its not a schooner, its a sailboat!
CBR Forum Buddy: txn_driver
XBOX Live GT: SUBCRIM
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