RE: 600rr damper
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RE: 600rr damper - 2/5/2007 10:43:44 AM
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woodyracing
Posts: 1326
Joined: 5/3/2006
From: Meridian, MS
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suspension is definitely most important but I wouldn't say you shouldn't get a damper
Fret and abad are right that tankslappers are caused 99% of the time by doing something stupid but believe it or not, sportbike riders do stupid crap quite often.
it might be a band-aid but a band-aid is better than nothing at all.
and most racers would choose both suspension and a damper because WERA and probably a lot of other race orgs require a damper to get out on the track.
I ride at Barber and Road Atlanta, try riding either of those with bad suspension or without a damper...
BAD IDEA
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RE: 600rr damper - 2/5/2007 3:56:35 PM
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RedFireRR
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Band-aid? I think there is a reason why dampers are now stock equipment on alot of bikes these days. Sure good riding technique can save them, however you have to experience them to save them. I dont know many people who actually want it to get to that point. If you wanna risk a crash in order to learn "proper technique", all the power to ya.. And it is "insurnace" so to speak when it stops something before it happens.. All a matter of opinion, but like I said, there is a reason most manufacturers are making them OEM now. Maybe they just want a world full of unskilled riders "band-aiding" up their riding skills?
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2003 CBR 600RR
-Puig Race screen (dark)
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RE: 600rr damper - 2/5/2007 5:50:30 PM
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Fretless33
Posts: 1007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RedFireRR
Band-aid? I think there is a reason why dampers are now stock equipment on alot of bikes these days.
How many factory 600cc sport bikes are being released with OEM dampers? It makes sense on a 1000cc bike because of the short wheel base and extreme horse power/torque to weight ratio...but a 600...meh...it's just not necessary...just like a slipper clutch on the streets...it has squid appeal and that's about it.
Moreover, if you're out on the streets without any training, or basic skills, riding a sport bike as hard as it would take to justify the need for a damper, then you deserve the crash you're going to eventually make...there's nothing wrong with learning the "in's and outs" of your motorcycle, so you can be prepared for just about any situation that comes your way...having a damper just in case something bad happens is ok if that's what you're after, but if you're that scared of "what ifs" then why even ride? Nothing can top a well prepared, knowledgeable rider...not even a finely tunes suspension will help if the operator doesn't know shit about riding!
Just my opinion and get one if it helps you sleep at night...
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RE: 600rr damper - 2/5/2007 6:05:18 PM
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ducbob
Posts: 77
Joined: 10/12/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Fretless33
quote:
ORIGINAL: RedFireRR
Band-aid? I think there is a reason why dampers are now stock equipment on alot of bikes these days.
How many factory 600cc sport bikes are being released with OEM dampers? It makes sense on a 1000cc bike because of the short wheel base and extreme horse power/torque to weight ratio...but a 600...meh...it's just not necessary...just like a slipper clutch on the streets...it has squid appeal and that's about it.
Moreover, if you're out on the streets without any training, or basic skills, riding a sport bike as hard as it would take to justify the need for a damper, then you deserve the crash you're going to eventually make...there's nothing wrong with learning the "in's and outs" of your motorcycle, so you can be prepared for just about any situation that comes your way...having a damper just in case something bad happens is ok if that's what you're after, but if you're that scared of "what ifs" then why even ride? Nothing can top a well prepared, knowledgeable rider...not even a finely tunes suspension will help if the operator doesn't know shit about riding!
Just my opinion and get one if it helps you sleep at night...
I understand the frustration of not being able to ride in the middle of winter in Michigan.
If one has ridden for any length of time it is understood how much improvement is always needed. That has been my experience, the more I learn the more I realize that I don't know. I have also learned that the small details are what bite you while riding, the stupid little things that I should know better than doing, but because of laziness or lack of concentration they are done. Most of the times it just makes my spinkster tighten up a bit. The reason for a damper is to help in those moments. I for one never to profess that I ride my bikes perfectly, I have made many mistakes and will continue to make mistakes. A damper is that little added insurance that may save my bacon one day. Make sense?
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RE: 600rr damper - 2/5/2007 9:56:35 PM
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Fretless33
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ducbob
I understand the frustration of not being able to ride in the middle of winter in Michigan.
If one has ridden for any length of time it is understood how much improvement is always needed. That has been my experience, the more I learn the more I realize that I don't know. I have also learned that the small details are what bite you while riding, the stupid little things that I should know better than doing, but because of laziness or lack of concentration they are done. Most of the times it just makes my spinkster tighten up a bit. The reason for a damper is to help in those moments. I for one never to profess that I ride my bikes perfectly, I have made many mistakes and will continue to make mistakes. A damper is that little added insurance that may save my bacon one day. Make sense?
I totally understand what you're saying, but the knowledge of knowing what to do is what has saved my ass on more than one occasion...not a damper, or a slipper clutch, or a rear set...and trust me...I'm far from perfect myself...how do you think I got into those situations  To this day I haven't needed any gadgets...believe me...I've had some crazy stuff happen; however, I'm not as dedicated to the track as I'd like to be and if I was, I'd get a damper (and a bunch of other stuff), but I'm not going to get solid rubber tires because I might get a flat someday...
Just like any modification on a sport bike it all boils down to practicality and choice... 
By the way...I'm still riding despite the cold...been doing it for many, many years 
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RE: 600rr damper - 2/5/2007 11:46:02 PM
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Jet Jockey Z06 Vette
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New 07 600RR now comes with HESD like on 1000RR.
I'm personally NOT happy with that choice Honda made. I ride a 1000RR from time to time & I have to say that the steering feel is not nearly as direct & connected as on my 2006 600RR. Kind of like a Porsche 911 steering is to say a Camaro or Mustang. Worlds apart in directness & feedback & response. HESD feels overly boosted & artificial to me.
Just my opinion. I can understand the extreme conditions of track riding making all safety equipment a clear choice. But for 99.9% of what we do on the street, I think a dampner is not necessary nor desireable.
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RE: 600rr damper - 2/5/2007 11:53:34 PM
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13brsxsrr
Posts: 1521
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FRETLESS
quote:
but I'm not going to get solid rubber tires because I might get a flat someday...
HAHA I got asphalt tires and with the rubber roads I never get flats.
Seriously though an Ohlins dampner is a nice piece of hardware and it doesn't hurt to have one but when it comes down to it the dampner will never replace the skill to handle the situation.
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RE: 600rr damper - 2/6/2007 12:29:00 AM
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woodyracing
Posts: 1326
Joined: 5/3/2006
From: Meridian, MS
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Fretless33
quote:
ORIGINAL: RedFireRR
Band-aid? I think there is a reason why dampers are now stock equipment on alot of bikes these days.
How many factory 600cc sport bikes are being released with OEM dampers? It makes sense on a 1000cc bike because of the short wheel base and extreme horse power/torque to weight ratio...but a 600...meh...it's just not necessary...just like a slipper clutch on the streets...it has squid appeal and that's about it.
Moreover, if you're out on the streets without any training, or basic skills, riding a sport bike as hard as it would take to justify the need for a damper, then you deserve the crash you're going to eventually make...there's nothing wrong with learning the "in's and outs" of your motorcycle, so you can be prepared for just about any situation that comes your way...having a damper just in case something bad happens is ok if that's what you're after, but if you're that scared of "what ifs" then why even ride? Nothing can top a well prepared, knowledgeable rider...not even a finely tunes suspension will help if the operator doesn't know shit about riding!
Just my opinion and get one if it helps you sleep at night...
I will say that the reason the manufs are starting to add dampers to their bikes is to have that extra little gadget to advertise especially the HESD, its all about the ads they can run about it and the extra sales that it might help bring in, not necessarily because its needed.
HOWEVER...
Fret, it sounds to me like your assuming:
A) No new rider ever makes a mistake that could cause a tank slapper
B) Every rider not only knows how to handle a tank slapper but also has enough experience to do so without hesitation
unfortunately TANK SLAPPERS DO HAPPEN, its a fact of life as long as sportbikes are fast, people will be getting themselves into trouble before they have the experience to get themselves out of said trouble. Do those people deserve to crash? Not quite. You can buy a steering damper, you can't buy experience so I say its a good investment and in all honesty its easier to convince someone to get a steering damper than to have their suspension set-up or to do a school to learn how to ride properly. Sometimes with the squidly types or the newbies you just have to take what you can get to make sure they don't f' themselves up trying to keep up with the other squids
< Message edited by woodyracing -- 2/6/2007 12:34:18 AM >
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RE: 600rr damper - 2/6/2007 12:56:49 AM
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arkansashog
Posts: 109
Joined: 9/12/2006
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First time caller long time listener!
1. A long time track racer says that when you get a true "tank slapper", get your hands away from the bars and let the bike do its thing. If you try to grap hold of the bars YOU WILL CRASH!!!!!!
2. If you like to ride your bike hard, the bars will shake when your front tire lands/barely off the ground. This is definitely not fun!!!!! Just relax!
So my answer is YES! Steering dampners are a safety thing and it makes sense that all manufacturers are now including these on new bikes. It is a liability thing!!!!!!
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RIDE SMART, RIDE HARD
2006 BLACK CBR 600RR
Chrome caps
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RE: 600rr damper - 2/6/2007 1:41:13 AM
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13brsxsrr
Posts: 1521
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ARKANSASHOG
quote:
1. A long time track racer says that when you get a true "tank slapper", get your hands away from the bars and let the bike do its thing. If you try to grap hold of the bars YOU WILL CRASH!!!!!!
Do me a favor and elaborate on this for me cause I don't understand the logic here. But if it works for you go for it.
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RE: 600rr damper - 2/6/2007 2:26:57 AM
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Fretless33
Posts: 1007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 13brsxsrr
ARKANSASHOG
quote:
1. A long time track racer says that when you get a true "tank slapper", get your hands away from the bars and let the bike do its thing. If you try to grap hold of the bars YOU WILL CRASH!!!!!!
Do me a favor and elaborate on this for me cause I don't understand the logic here. But if it works for you go for it.
Trying to fight the slapper could injure or break your wrists, because your efforts to stop the tank slapper will actually make it worse...these are the "Survival Reactions" that Keith Code talks about...things that your body instinctively does to protect it's self, but can be dangerous on a sport bike...the trick is to stop it when it's head shake, or a little wobble and like I mentioned you, keep on the gas, stay loose on the grips and ride it out...essentially if you constantly remind yourself to be relaxed on the bars it will become second nature, so in effect you'll always be ready for head shake.
I saw a video of a guy who took has hands completely off the bars during a slapper, but he crashed because he hit a wall...it wasn't pretty.
Woody, I'm not assuming every rider knows how to handle a tank slapper, but if my words "stay on the gas, relax on the bars and ride it out" pop into someones head who doesn't have a damper...in my opinion they'll be better off than the dude who felt is front end wobble once and ran out to buy a damper because all his buddies told him to get one. Most of us learn from our mistakes, and want to find ways to prevent them and I think rider education is the best...then get the gadgets.
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RE: 600rr damper - 2/6/2007 9:47:58 AM
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woodyracing
Posts: 1326
Joined: 5/3/2006
From: Meridian, MS
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thats great for the riders on this board, but what about the other 10 million that buy a new 600 and never hear that advice???
as I said, I completely agree that rider education is most important but the reality of it is, most riders don't get that education and no matter how many internet boards you post it on, not everybody will hear the advice they need to.
Last time I went to an MSF course nothing at all was mentioned about tank slappers, because they all focus on cruiser riders (even though more than half the class were wanting sportbikes).
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