can i jump start with car battery?
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RE: can i jump start with car battery? - 3/29/2007 6:09:47 AM
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dragonium25
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 DO NOT JUMP START WITH A CAR. You're gonna have to do your push start method to get it going. Then go for a long ride and keep the revs high so that the alternator can do it's job and charge up the battery. If it still dies afterwards, consider getting a battery tender/charger to juice it up.
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RE: can i jump start with car battery? - 3/29/2007 6:12:40 AM
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Blue Fox
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From: Las Cruces, NM
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I don't know the exact term.....but car batteries have much more "power" than motorcycle batteries do. So you run the risk of frying your electrics or possibly "blowing up" the motorcycle battery.
I would just get a trickle charger and charge the battery.........either that or push start it.
< Message edited by Blue Fox -- 3/29/2007 6:13:47 AM >
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RE: can i jump start with car battery? - 3/29/2007 8:14:16 AM
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95camaro01f4i
Posts: 641
Joined: 6/8/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Blue Fox
I don't know the exact term.....but car batteries have much more "power" than motorcycle batteries do. So you run the risk of frying your electrics or possibly "blowing up" the motorcycle battery.
I would just get a trickle charger and charge the battery.........either that or push start it.
i dont understand why you couldnt use a car. there both 12v systems. the fact that a car battery has more cranking amps just means you can put more of a draw on the battery not that it puts out more power.
im not saying you should go hook your motorcycle to a car battery. i just dont see why you couldnt.
if you do use a car make sure its not runing when you jump start the bike becuase the charging system on a car will put to much power toward the bike and most likely frie your power regulator
< Message edited by 95camaro01f4i -- 3/29/2007 8:21:07 AM >
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RE: can i jump start with car battery? - 3/29/2007 8:49:56 AM
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TheX
Posts: 3772
Joined: 12/17/2006
From: Austin TEXAS
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Borrowed from someone that knows
Jump Starting – NOT from a Running Car Submitted by Radford, B Davis
The issue is that cars (and 'wings and a very few other bikes) have a different type of alternator than our Shadows (and most other motorcycles) have.
Basic theory idea, for those who came in late: Generators of all types make electricity by moving a magnetic field relative to a coil of wire. The stronger the magnetic field and the faster it moves, the more electricity is generated. The moving part is usually called an armature or rotor. The stationary part is called a stator.
The typical car alternator is an excited field type. The magnetic field is created by an electromagnet in the rotor. Supply voltage is controlled by the amount of current going through the electromagnet. Most big AC generators are made this way. If an external power source is applied of a higher voltage than the regulator setpoint is applied to the system, the regulator will recognize the system voltage as being above setpoint and turn the field magnet (usually rotor) off. Result: No problem, as long as the applied voltage isn't so high as to damage anything (typically 25 V or higher on a 12V system). So you can (usually) jump start a car with another car, or a GoldWing without any problems.
Now the bad news:
Most motorcycles don't use an electromagnet to create the magnetic field. Instead ,we have a drum-shaped rotor (usually on the crankshaft) with several permanent magnets placed inside (a magneto). These magnets moving past the stator coils create the electricity we need to run the lights, charge the battery, etc. But you can't change the strength of a permanent magnet. So regulating the generator output is not a straightforward issue of turning the field magnet strength up or down.
The motorcycle voltage regulators I've seen all take the approach of shunting excess generated power to ground. This has the advantage of making sure that the voltage is the same everywhere in the system, but the disadvantage of meaning that the stator is always flowing its maximum rated supply current. This, I think, is why many motorcycles have a reputation for frying stators.
So the design of one of these regulators is completely different from a cage regulator. It has a voltage detection part, like the other regulators, but the big resistor/power transistor package has to be strong enough to carry all the possible excess power generation to ground. It handles a lot more power than the car regulator has to. It generates a lot of heat as it does this, which is why the regulator on my '85 VT1100 is finned and out in the open air--to carry off the heat before it cooks something in or around the regulator. A typical bike magneto makes 30-50 amps at max power. So the regulator is designed to dissipate a maximum of about 700 watts for short periods (this would be full power and no loads on the bike--the battery and lights are all missing). In practice, this cooks the regulator pretty fast--they don't like to dissipate more than about 200 watts for any length of time.
Now consider what happens when your moto regulator is doing a good job keeping the system at a nominal 14.1 volts when running, but the battery is weak, so you have to jump-start it on cold mornings. You hook up the bike to your Toyota with a 95 amp alternator (max output about 1400 watts). The Toyota's voltage regulator keeps *its* system at a cozy 14.3 volts when the engine is running. We now have a problem.
The cage's alternator and regulator want to maintain the system at 14.3 volts. Your bike's regulator, the instant the system is turned on, is going to try to bleed off excess voltage from the system to keep it at 14.1 volts. The car's alternator is rated for 1400 watts. The bike's regulator can dissipate a maximum of 700 for (very) short periods before it
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RE: can i jump start with car battery? - 3/29/2007 9:00:34 AM
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ashsammy
Posts: 121
Joined: 2/2/2006
From: Dubai, UAE.
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wow that areally helps TheX, thanx.
so let me ge this straight, i should jump start the bike with the car off and both bikes headlights on?
http://www.yuasabatteries.com/battery.asp?bID=B177&vID=1869
< Message edited by ashsammy -- 3/29/2007 9:14:19 AM >
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RE: can i jump start with car battery? - 3/29/2007 9:26:12 AM
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D2VW14_20
Posts: 5099
Joined: 7/13/2006
From: Menominee, MI to Panama City Bch,FL / Orlando,FL
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 95camaro01f4i
quote:
ORIGINAL: Blue Fox
I don't know the exact term.....but car batteries have much more "power" than motorcycle batteries do. So you run the risk of frying your electrics or possibly "blowing up" the motorcycle battery.
I would just get a trickle charger and charge the battery.........either that or push start it.
i dont understand why you couldnt use a car. there both 12v systems. the fact that a car battery has more cranking amps just means you can put more of a draw on the battery not that it puts out more power.
im not saying you should go hook your motorcycle to a car battery. i just dont see why you couldnt.
if you do use a car make sure its not runing when you jump start the bike becuase the charging system on a car will put to much power toward the bike and most likely frie your power regulator
Because there is a different amount of CCA's on batteries amoung different vehicles. A car may have 600-900 rating of CCA's, meaning it provided that amount (600-900) amps of current to the system and start up and every 30 seconds. A motorcycle battery may have around a 300 rating, which is half+ of a car baterry, therefore overloading the battery and system with the amount of amps it gives off.
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RE: can i jump start with car battery? - 3/29/2007 9:28:01 AM
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james007torres24
Posts: 1194
Joined: 8/26/2006
From: El cajon
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have as many things in the car on like lights, stero and other crap u have in it. the car not on. then yea u can jump start.
the term i belive is amps. you cant start a car with 8 AA batteres even tho there both 12V. a car batt has way more amps as it needs it.
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