Dealership Invoice- Labor questions
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Dealership Invoice- Labor questions - 4/9/2007 4:41:04 PM
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Jaybird180
Posts: 2667
Joined: 5/12/2006
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A few on the board know about my work being done to the bike. They emailed me an invoice with detail about what is owed.
First, does anyone know where a Honda labor rate chart can be found? In other words, what work gets billed for what time?
Here's the details:
I had them replace my OEM shock with an Ohlins unit and replace the swingarm with a used one. They billed me 0.9hrs for the shock and 1.5hrs for the swingarm. Everyone knows that you cannot do either unless the two parts are unmarried.
I also had them do a full 16k service. They charged 5.2 hours. I gave them the bike with no bodywork. I'm sure the 16k service require removal and replacement of bodywork, which they did not have to perform. What's appropriate here?
I had them flush my coolant also and replace with distilled and water wetter. They billed 0.6hrs. If I recall, coolant change is scheduled at 16k service. Now I know that I asked them to go a step further than just a drain/ fill, but should they have charged me separtately for this, and at 0.6hrs?
Is this a fair billing or am I just experiencing sticker shock (I won't say what the final bill is, caused I also got a rack of parts, services, that I'm not complaining about).
_____________________________
Track/Street 02'' F4i
ZG Dbl Bbbl, Galfer SS Lines, PC3r, Muzzy s/o, NRC cover, ShiftMinder(WTF?), Speedbleeders, Vortex sliders, fenderless, GP Shift
Ohlins, Racetech, Showa Suspension
Don''t go in the forest if you don''t want to go to Granny'
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RE: Dealership Invoice- Labor questions - 4/9/2007 4:50:14 PM
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Tahoe SC
Posts: 5874
Joined: 8/24/2005
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should've done most of the work yourself bird...now you gots to pay...
how much the forks cost you just to drop in the ohlins springs? should be the same price as a standard fluid change...so maybe like 70-100 bucks or so...for one i believe. 5.2 hours for 16K service? did they have to inspect and adjust valves, etc?
i need to see what they charged you for each work item, including labor.
from what i can tell, the labor hours seem fine.
_____________________________
Admit it...you love my siggy...
"Let the ignorance die with the ignorant" - Tahoe SC
bye bye F4i!
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RE: Dealership Invoice- Labor questions - 4/9/2007 5:02:20 PM
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Jaybird180
Posts: 2667
Joined: 5/12/2006
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OK, the charge for replacing coolant is appropriate as per service guidelines. At 16k the coolant is INSPECTED. The 16k included valves and should have included Throttle body synch, but the chart in the owner's manual isn't too specific. I would have to look at a service manual chart to double check....I definately was under impression that it included that.
Tahoe, As for the other items, I had more than just springs dropped in-to the suspension. I had that work done separately. I got new fork springs, Racetech Gold Compression Valves (my supplied part), Showa High-Flow rebound pistons, new seals and bushings for $345 shipped back to me....Good deal I think.
_____________________________
Track/Street 02'' F4i
ZG Dbl Bbbl, Galfer SS Lines, PC3r, Muzzy s/o, NRC cover, ShiftMinder(WTF?), Speedbleeders, Vortex sliders, fenderless, GP Shift
Ohlins, Racetech, Showa Suspension
Don''t go in the forest if you don''t want to go to Granny'
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RE: Dealership Invoice- Labor questions - 4/9/2007 5:03:16 PM
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Jaybird180
Posts: 2667
Joined: 5/12/2006
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Oh, what do you have to say about the shock/ SA and no bodywork situation?
_____________________________
Track/Street 02'' F4i
ZG Dbl Bbbl, Galfer SS Lines, PC3r, Muzzy s/o, NRC cover, ShiftMinder(WTF?), Speedbleeders, Vortex sliders, fenderless, GP Shift
Ohlins, Racetech, Showa Suspension
Don''t go in the forest if you don''t want to go to Granny'
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RE: Dealership Invoice- Labor questions - 4/9/2007 5:11:57 PM
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Jaybird180
Posts: 2667
Joined: 5/12/2006
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Is this in the service manual that TBs get synch at 16,000 miles?
http://www.cbrforum.com/m_169426/tm.htm
_____________________________
Track/Street 02'' F4i
ZG Dbl Bbbl, Galfer SS Lines, PC3r, Muzzy s/o, NRC cover, ShiftMinder(WTF?), Speedbleeders, Vortex sliders, fenderless, GP Shift
Ohlins, Racetech, Showa Suspension
Don''t go in the forest if you don''t want to go to Granny'
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RE: Dealership Invoice- Labor questions - 4/9/2007 5:12:44 PM
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Tahoe SC
Posts: 5874
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i'm an idiot, read too fast...i was thinking front fork! muahahahha...
i see that total work is like 7 hours, which isn't so bad...but some of it does overlap.
what's their hourly rate?
as far as TB sync...i doubt they did it...it's not really part of the service, but a separate item.
_____________________________
Admit it...you love my siggy...
"Let the ignorance die with the ignorant" - Tahoe SC
bye bye F4i!
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RE: Dealership Invoice- Labor questions - 4/9/2007 8:16:55 PM
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bmg velocity
Posts: 1353
Joined: 12/14/2006
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Don't know about the swingarm...
The 16 k check consists mostly of just inspections, and most of the time, nothing needs replacing, maybe a few minor adjustments
to the valves, and synch the carbs...but that takes 1.5 to 2.5 hours max...especially with body work removed already.
Spark plugs included, if the technician is experienced.
You should havedone the plugs and filter yourself.
The Ohlins shock may have needed some modding itself?
Maybe that/s the 0.9 for that.
Honda shops vary, as all delaerships do for hourly labor charges...but the average is $45 per hour.
That's pretty much the going rate at private shops as well.
Next time, I would take it either to a different dealer...and have them do the valves and carb synch only.
(I hate mercury sticks...only used them about 4 times...and they are touchy. I nearly put mecury in a bike first time
I used them. A quick hand to the engine kill switch stopped that. Don't they have digital gauges these days?)
The coolant flush...not part of the 16 k check...so 0.6 is not bad...think you got treated right on that one.
Remember when mechanics and shops scheck" something...they mean that literally. They CHECK it...don;t fix it.
Fixning or replacing is extra...
Overcharged?
Yes...
< Message edited by bmg velocity -- 4/9/2007 8:18:39 PM >
_____________________________
Does not want to debate insurance co.'s or bad drivers for at least a decade or 10. Want to argue the merits? You are a one man show. Sorry no takers here.
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RE: Dealership Invoice- Labor questions - 4/9/2007 8:58:49 PM
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jbreit
Posts: 306
Joined: 10/13/2006
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$45 an hour...I wanna know where that shop is....around here its $80.
5 hours for 16K service better be a full valve adjustment and check TB's for sync....BUT, as far as a sync, unless they are off by more than 2cm they won't touch them....so you got another "check"....
2.4 hours for a swing arm and shock..?..seems high...I would buy 1.5
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RE: Dealership Invoice- Labor questions - 4/9/2007 9:03:41 PM
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Jaybird180
Posts: 2667
Joined: 5/12/2006
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They billed me 0.9 hrs just to swap the shock out!
I wish I could get a $45 labor rate. This shop is competitive for this area at $80/hr.
_____________________________
Track/Street 02'' F4i
ZG Dbl Bbbl, Galfer SS Lines, PC3r, Muzzy s/o, NRC cover, ShiftMinder(WTF?), Speedbleeders, Vortex sliders, fenderless, GP Shift
Ohlins, Racetech, Showa Suspension
Don''t go in the forest if you don''t want to go to Granny'
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RE: Dealership Invoice- Labor questions - 4/9/2007 9:22:58 PM
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95camaro01f4i
Posts: 641
Joined: 6/8/2006
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they go by a book that tells them how much time to charge u for a job. there gona charge u what ever that books says for the labor. if the book says its supposed to take them .9 hours for a job and it take them .7 there still gona charge u the .9
< Message edited by 95camaro01f4i -- 4/9/2007 9:25:07 PM >
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RE: Dealership Invoice- Labor questions - 4/9/2007 11:15:30 PM
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abadfish
Posts: 771
Joined: 6/26/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jaybird180
I had them replace my OEM shock with an Ohlins unit and replace the swingarm with a used one. They billed me 0.9hrs for the shock and 1.5hrs for the swingarm. Everyone knows that you cannot do either unless the two parts are unmarried.
2.5 hours seems a bit much to me. I know it wouldn't take me 1 hour to swap out a shock.
quote:
I also had them do a full 16k service. They charged 5.2 hours. I gave them the bike with no bodywork. I'm sure the 16k service require removal and replacement of bodywork, which they did not have to perform. What's appropriate here?
5.2 hours does seem a bit long but your not very specific on what was done and include in that 5.2 hours. There's a big difference between inspecting valves and adjusting valves. Does this include a throttle body sync???? (most places don't include that with valves). Plugs???
quote:
I had them flush my coolant also and replace with distilled and water wetter. They billed 0.6hrs. If I recall, coolant change is scheduled at 16k service. Now I know that I asked them to go a step further than just a drain/ fill, but should they have charged me separtately for this, and at 0.6hrs?
0.6 hours sounds about right.
FWIW, you can do it all of this yourself and save yourself a ton of cash:
valve clearances (for 600RR but it'll be really close to your bike, at least procedurally)
throttle body sync
cooling system flush
quote:
ORIGINAL: bmg velocity
The 16 k check consists mostly of just inspections, and most of the time, nothing needs replacing, maybe a few minor adjustments
to the valves, and synch the carbs...but that takes 1.5 to 2.5 hours max...especially with body work removed already.
This doesn't make a whole lot of sense. The way these shim valves work, there is no minor adjustment. They're either in spec or not and need adjustment if they're out of spec. The same amount of labor is involved if they're 0.001mm out of spec or 0.010 mm out of spec.
quote:
Honda shops vary, as all delaerships do for hourly labor charges...but the average is $45 per hour.
My god!!!! where do you live????? Shops here in San Francisco, CA haven't been at that rate in over 5 years. The cheapest I've seen here is $85/hour.
_____________________________
'05 600RR Purple/Black
 
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RE: Dealership Invoice- Labor questions - 4/10/2007 12:45:57 AM
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bmg velocity
Posts: 1353
Joined: 12/14/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bmg velocity
The 16 k check consists mostly of just inspections, and most of the time, nothing needs replacing, maybe a few minor adjustments
to the valves, and synch the carbs...but that takes 1.5 to 2.5 hours max...especially with body work removed already.
This doesn't make a whole lot of sense. The way these shim valves work, there is no minor adjustment. They're either in spec or not and need adjustment if they're out of spec. The same amount of labor is involved if they're 0.001mm out of spec or 0.010 mm out of spec.
Exactly...modern engines stay within the engineered specs...even ones 10-15 years old...
No adjustment is usually needed...in my experience anyway.
quote:
My god!!!! where do you live????? Shops here in San Francisco, CA haven't been at that rate in over 5 years. The cheapest I've seen here is $85/hour.
Yeah...lots wrong in S.F...including bike work prices...
< Message edited by bmg velocity -- 4/10/2007 12:46:26 AM >
_____________________________
Does not want to debate insurance co.'s or bad drivers for at least a decade or 10. Want to argue the merits? You are a one man show. Sorry no takers here.
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RE: Dealership Invoice- Labor questions - 4/10/2007 1:03:26 AM
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TK954RR
Posts: 4914
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Green Bay WI
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Labor rate in Green Bay Wi is $85. Like most shops if you bring in your own parts for anything it goes higher, usually to $100 or so.
< Message edited by TK954RR -- 4/10/2007 1:04:25 AM >
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I look at what my life has become, the one thing I had hoped desprately to avoid. My life has become a dark void. Inescapeable, and inevitably lonely.
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RE: Dealership Invoice- Labor questions - 4/10/2007 9:50:00 AM
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K1Dan
Posts: 6
Joined: 4/9/2007
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mechanics often work on a bonus scheme and as stated they charge by book time for what honda say it should take. if it says 5.2 and they do it in 2 hours then the mechanic most likely gets a bonus.
lots of my car mechanic friends earn bonuses like this. they work 40 hours and earn 60 hours bonus... thats a lot of money.
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Another +1 to Tahoe, do the work yourself! save the money, and buy better quailty parts, just my .02
