RE: Anyone make a 1/5 turn throttle?
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RE: Anyone make a 1/5 turn throttle? - 5/26/2007 3:09:40 PM
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knischewsky
Posts: 41
Joined: 8/22/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kwong2001
Yeah, you're supposed to blip the throttle on a downshift, and if it's going into higher rpm range, it actually does take a fair amount of effort to do it. Especially say 3rd>2nd gear downshift. Then factor in holding the front brake at the same time, I just don't want as much throttle travel, that's all.
Under hard braking when I blip the throttle, my wrist has to move pretty far and my glove won't slide on the brake lever like I want and as a result I end up grabbing more front brake than I intented. May just be the gloves or lever that I have though.
i hear what your saying, i had the same problem, when i down shift, into higher rpm, i can only have my finger tips on the brake lever, so i can get the engine rpm up high enough, with out grabbing the brake
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RE: Anyone make a 1/5 turn throttle? - 6/10/2007 6:29:22 AM
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ceeber6
Posts: 85
Joined: 5/1/2007
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For starters and i hope i dont stand on anyones toes here but racers dont use full throttle a lot, they use 75% at most, full throttle is too hard to handle but is there for dire moments of need as in overtaking for the line when risks can be taken. They use 1/5th throttles so they can control the throttle response with less hand movements. your problem is more than likely your gloves. You'll find that you inner lining on your glove is staying with your palm and the outer is moving with the throttle. Thus making it harder to open the throttle and use brakes etc. I use a technique were i roll my palm around the throttle which means i can use a little brake properly and still control the throttle slightly. With a 1/5th throttle this allows me to use more of the range of the throttle without having to take my fingers of the brake.I was shown it by my instructor who is an ex racer himself. Its hard to describe without sitting and having a bike with me and you but essentially you put your fingers on the front brake, put the rear of your palm on the throttle and flatten your hand. Your fingers shoudl stay where they are and your palm should roll down the throttle. After all we shouldn't be gripping our bars too tight and this helps with throttle control and overall riding. All i do when i need to back off is roll my palm up the throttle. Hey presto, a little brake and a little throttle. I must stress i'm not responsible for any mishaps anyone wanting to try this may have as you all do whatever you listen to at your own risk. All i'm saying is with proper tuition and a bike to sit on and someone who's done it for years showing me, i can do it. I wont be held responsible for anything anyone wants to try or any injuries or damage sustained as a result. Essentially if you can ride it properly you dont need fancy gimmicks to ride better. Dont forget if Honda thought it was essential for a road bike it would be on there, look at the new blades, they have what we call a steering damper as standard, but not a 1/5th throttle. Save your cash and try other riding methods. Try two finger braking as dirt bike riders do, they need throttle control and brakes. Just cos your riding a race faired superbike doesnt mean other riding styles dont help, they are all motorbikes. I am only expressing my opinion on this and i'm expecting a few people to shoot me down but hey thats what freedom of expression is all about.
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RE: Anyone make a 1/5 turn throttle? - 6/11/2007 6:52:17 PM
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kwong2001
Posts: 392
Joined: 6/5/2006
From: Federal Way, WA
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Well I remembered a thing I did awhile ago, and tried it again and it seemed to work out pretty good. I kept my fingers in the same position on the brake lever, and just positioned my palm farther forward on the grip and it seemed to give me the travel I needed without compromising the braking. I'll have ride more and get into some real heavy braking before I can see if it's really making a difference.
Oh, HRC does make a 1/5 turn throttle conversion for the RC51 and I believe that kit also works with the 600rr, 1000rr, and the F4i (with modifications). I'd imagine a 1/5 is a tad on the rediculous side for a streetbike, which is why they don't come fitted with it from the factory.
edit: looks like a place makes one for the F4, which probably fits, too bad it's $190  And it's adjustable to different ratios
< Message edited by kwong2001 -- 6/11/2007 7:21:06 PM >
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RE: Anyone make a 1/5 turn throttle? - 6/14/2007 10:35:49 AM
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gibbon666
Posts: 1
Joined: 6/14/2007
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Wow, it was amazing to read so many posts that didn't answer your question, and half the time didn't even understand the question.
There are various reasons for wanting a 1/5 or even 1/6 throttle. I just modified the one on our CBR600 powered F2 sidecar as under racing conditions the driver found himself wanting to grab a second handful of the throttle to get to full throttle after easing off in to corners. I'm surprised that anyone suggested you change your riding style.
"racers don't use full throttle a lot" - hmmmm - do a lot of racing ceeber6? Watch the pretty little dials at the side of Moto GP or F1 or Indy Car or pretty much anything similar. The throttle bar is on 100% nearly every time they accelerate. To take a road race extreme - at the TT Dave Molyneux (sidecar racer - has won about 12 times) reckons that he is on full throttle 90 percent of the race.
Adapt the bike to you for maximum comfort, not yourself to the bike. As you found out, the HRC ones and similar are a tad expensive.
Now - how to modify your throttle. Please note that I did this on a push-pull type throttle - it could be slightly different depending on your exact throttle. Please, please test it thoroughly before riding and make sure nothing binds and stops the throttle closing. I am not responsible for what you do with this information.
Lets start with the theory. If you understand this (and it is simple) then you can pretty much figure out the mod yourself. Inside your throttle is a cam (a wheel or disc basically) around the outside of this runs - in the case of a push-pull - the 2 throttle cables. Now if you make the disc bigger, then a quarter turn results in more movement of the wire. Imagine you have a yo-yo - dangle it on it's piece of string then turn the yo-yo through 90 degrees. Measure the amount of string wrapped up by this. Now get a car tyre. Tie or tack a piece of string to it on the outer edge - rotate the tyre through 90 degrees - measure string. Spot the difference? That's the basic concept, but massively exaggerated. The downside of the shorter pull is a slightly heavier throttle action - you are moving the throttle less to take up the same resistance from the throttle return spring.
Now all I did - Cut a couple of strips of thin plastic to make a shim or spacer. This sits underneath the throttle cables on the cam. What you effectively are doing here is increasing the diameter of the cam/disc in the throttle, so less turn for same travel. It is important that the shims don't bind on the sides, have too much space to let the cables slide down the side of the spacer, push the throttle cables too high and cause binding on the outer cover around the cam or push the throttle cables out of the groove if your throttle has a groove (mine doesn't).
I used plastic from a spray can lid. I cut it as 2 seperate strips (one on top of the other) as it was easier to cut and bent to the shape of the cam easier.
I hope this helps you out with this. If you are unsure as to the safety of the mod, look on eBay at the standard quick twist turn mod they sell for Suzukis. It's the same thing - just a plastic shim to increase the diameter of the cam. Please, please test it before you start the bike. If anything binds - take it apart, sand or file the plastic some more, reassemble and test again. If you make any modification to your throttle and don't thoroughly test it then you are taking a stupid risk.
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RE: Anyone make a 1/5 turn throttle? - 6/14/2007 9:05:23 PM
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tyro1shooz
Posts: 22
Joined: 6/2/2007
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take the slack up in the cable by turning the adjusting screw that goes into the throttle housing.(at the end of the little metal 90degree where the cable slips thru)
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RE: Anyone make a 1/5 turn throttle? - 6/14/2007 9:10:16 PM
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tyro1shooz
Posts: 22
Joined: 6/2/2007
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try adjusting throttle cable taking slack up at adjuster screw at throttle
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RE: Anyone make a 1/5 turn throttle? - 6/16/2007 6:30:48 AM
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ceeber6
Posts: 85
Joined: 5/1/2007
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In response to Gibbon666, i apologise, what i should've said was, racers don't use full throttle a lot, except when on a nice big long straight. Anyone can ride fast in a straight line. I'm sure as you are only a new member you will not yet know that another user on this forum has that same line as a signature. I have however done as you've suggested and watched the pretty little dials. Do you have a recording of when Stoner was full throttle thru a series of bends, or Rossi when he was full throttle banked over and attempting an overtake. I saw full throttle on straights, but on the twisties were most enjoyment is given on a bike i never saw it once. Dont worry i'm booking an eye test on Monday. Also, you are correct i have never raced a bike, plenty cars tho and i dont know if you know the driving style of cars but they do differ in nature from bikes. I will however speak with my riding instructer who raced for 25 years and take all of his race winning trophies from him and tell him to pack in his business as he obviously doesn't know what he's talking about. To sum up and to repeat my last post, racers don't use full throttle a lot (the time they do being on straights or near straights) they do however have 1/5th throttles to gain more control over the throttle during bends and twists in the road where minute throttle movement is more advantagious than over twisting the wrist.And to answer the original post, why would you ever NEED a 1/5th throttle? Unless your on track and getting to Moto GP standards, ride the bike better first then think about adding unnecessary road improvements.
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RE: Anyone make a 1/5 turn throttle? - 6/17/2007 3:10:30 PM
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ceeber6
Posts: 85
Joined: 5/1/2007
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Is it a coincidence how all of the responses to my reply are from new members. Please refer to June2006 issue of RIDE. These guys know what they're talking about. They have an article on how much BHP you would use riding your bike. They have a racer who has 20 years experience. They use nice pretty little graphs to illustrate the throttle use. May be my eyes but the most throttle usage by the racer is fully closed to slow down, followed by 30%, then 20%, 40% and 10%, then 50% and 60% with minor use of 70% plus. I dont mean to sound anal on this but i'm going from what i'm told and what i read in decent publications. So back to my last comment, you will only need a 1/5th throttle on a race bike. Molyneux uses a race bike on the road for the TT. After all its a road race. That a good enough response on the Molyneux comment. How many toes will i now have stepped on as the count is now two. I would like to say this a forum used to help people with problems and express personal opinions and experiences but if people want to fill peoples heads with unnecessary magic and attempt to have them spending unnecessary sums of money on unnecessary items for road bikes, i'll stick up for the little fish every time. As anyone should know, learning to ride never stops, learning to race is the same. If a pro racer on a 125 can beat a road going 600 round a track then does this not show that its the rider not the machine? Gibbon, sidecar i hold no hard feelings i'm only expressing my opinions and what i believe and know. I'll attempt to prove a point where i believe i am right as i imagine will you guys. Fair play and big up to CBR FORUM.
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RE: Anyone make a 1/5 turn throttle? - 6/18/2007 2:36:00 AM
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LlanoSV
Posts: 214
Joined: 12/5/2006
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Could the races that both you guys are using for example differ because of the machines that they were using. Give them a GP bike, and they might have a 1/5 throttle, BUT there are computers inside the bike that will help to give the rider more control of the bike. Ex. the RC211V has a computer that controls the fuel/air because if it wasn't 1st and 2nd wouldn't be controllable. (Jan. 07 Ride).
Give the test riders a stock bike that they are suppose to be reviewing, there won't be a 1/5 throttle, because it's stock.
Using a 1/5 throttle is only up to the ride. It does cuase less control over the overall affect of throttle, but you've got to factor in other aspects of the bike and rider as well. (fuel/air ratio, fly-by-wire, engine management, etc.)
just my .02
P.S. Welcome to the CBR Forum, Sidecar John
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RE: Anyone make a 1/5 turn throttle? - 6/23/2007 6:47:22 AM
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ceeber6
Posts: 85
Joined: 5/1/2007
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LlanoSV welcome to the debate as it appears to have turned into. haha I believe reading thru the previous posts (including my own) you have summed the total answers up the best. 1/5th throttles are good, providing you have the necessary bike to fit it to, and rider to ride it.
Stock bikes dont have the necessary computer controls to justify having a 1/5th throttle. All i was trying to get at was why fit one? To a race bike yes, but to a road bike, why? All you need to do is ride it better. I admit that i didn't answer the original question, i was just commenting as to why one would be needed and what else could be done, rather than spending money and effort on parts, when learning to ride it better would be more enjoyable and in the end transferable from bike to bike.
Sidecar, laws of physics say the smaller the engine in the bike the more throttle needed to generate the same amount of go as a bigger engined bike so yes i would agree you dare say full throttle. However we could go round in circles because by that statement alone its almost saying the bigger the engine the less throttle needed. I was only trying to state that its riding style, not power. How many of you CBR6 guys have beaten larger engined bikes on riding style alone only to be beaten on a straight. As i mentioned anyone can ride a bike fast in a straight line, its only in the corners and bends we become more controlled over the machine we choose to ride.
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RE: Anyone make a 1/5 turn throttle? - 6/23/2007 12:18:09 PM
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abadfish
Posts: 771
Joined: 6/26/2005
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ceeber6, where are you getting your information?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? 
quote:
ORIGINAL: ceeber6
1/5th throttles are good, providing you have the necessary bike to fit it to, and rider to ride it.
There isn't anything special about a 1/5th throttle (or 1/6th or 1/8th or whatever). Any bike can have a modified throttle. There isn't anything a bike needs to have one. Nor is there anything special about the rider who uses it. Just like anything else, its a tool at the rider's disposal that may be better suited for the rider physically or for his/her riding style.
quote:
Stock bikes dont have the necessary computer controls to justify having a 1/5th throttle.
All throttles (unless it were a fly by wire, which is not on any production bike) are strictly mechanical. More specifically, their motion (and hence, their effects) are governed strictly by the motion of the cables in throttle. The ECU has no idea whether the throttle itself is a stock 1/4, 1/5th, 1/6th or whatever. Therefore, there is no necessary computer needed for a quicker turn throttle.
quote:
All i was trying to get at was why fit one? To a race bike yes, but to a road bike, why?
It doesn't have to be about performance. People will small hands will be served well with quick-turn throttles.
quote:
All you need to do is ride it better.
How are you defining ride it better???? Again, a quick-turn throttle is a tool. No tool is universal, it will work well for some but not everybody.
quote:
i was just commenting as to why one would be needed and what else could be done, rather than spending money and effort on parts, when learning to ride it better would be more enjoyable and in the end transferable from bike to bike.
the same could be said for just about all aftermarket parts. The bike is perfectly fine stock. It doesn't need aftermarket exhausts, aftermarket turn signals, fender elminators, etc. But I bet you still have a few of those.
quote:
How many of you CBR6 guys have beaten larger engined bikes on riding style alone only to be beaten on a straight.
Ride track much (or at all)???? The only time a big bike is going to take a smaller bike on the straights is when the smaller bike rider is not skilled in driving out of the corner before the straight and/or not skilled in braking for the corner at the end of the straight. For riders of equal skill (and for the sake of this discussion, good riding skill), a liter bike won't have the hp advantage over the 600 until near the end of the straight (the only exception to this is a REALLY LONG straight). In most cases, even if the liter bike passes the 600 at the end of the straight, that distance is easily made up in the braking in setting up for the turn at the end of the straight (a prime example of this is Rossi chasing Stoner in the straights). Personally, I prefer to be fast on a slow bike.
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