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Bridgestone BT-002 vs Pilot Power

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Bridgestone BT-002 vs Pilot Power - 10/6/2007 8:43:39 AM

mountainrider

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Joined: 10/6/2007
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So I just acquired an 05 600rr. I have a new set of Pilot Powers fitted. Used them for a couple of years on my Duc and Yamaha without complaint. This bike seems a little squirrley squirmy when getting near the front tires edge.

For the sake of arguement, lets assume that I have good form i.e. Knee planted, face kissing inside mirror, arms loose, ass off ...yadyada.

Good chassis set up with stock suspenders; Static and dynamic sag spot on and 1 secondish return on dampers....etc.

I have heard that the BT-002's are quite stable at max lean, but the trade off is that the tip in requires slightly more effort due to the more rounded profile. Sounds like a reasonable trade off.

Anyone have experience to share?

Post #: 1

RE: Bridgestone BT-002 vs Pilot Power - 10/7/2007 7:25:06 PM

dwhite645

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Joined: 1/21/2006
From: OldFatGuy's garage - stealing parts
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Well, the only thing I can think of from the front getting squirrely is maybe you're not giving it enough gas while at max lean? Perhaps there's too much weight being loaded on the front? Don't know. I recently did a track day with newly fitted pilot powers and didn't feel any front end problems at max lean. Also can't comment on Bridgestone's as I have never had them. Maybe you should look into a set of Corsa III's for track use. I had standard corsas for a while and they gave nice feedback, but like you said with Bridgestones, the turn in wasn't as easy as with the pilot's.

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RE: Bridgestone BT-002 vs Pilot Power - 10/7/2007 9:43:46 PM

mountainrider

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Joined: 10/6/2007
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Mr Bib got rubbed out today!

I fixed the problem this morning. My old Snap-on tire gauge was reading about 7 pounds higher than actual pressure Polled it against three others to come to this asssesment.

I still think I'm going to give the Bstones a go. I've heard some good chatter on the Wera board. Lower lap times and more heat cycles compared to the PP's & DC's

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Post #: 3

RE: Bridgestone BT-002 vs Pilot Power - 10/8/2007 6:50:45 PM

Jason748

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Joined: 10/22/2006
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What pressure are you running them at? On the street should be around 32-33 in the front, on the track 30-32.

I've run both, lower lap times just becuase of the stones is complete BS, I typicially run Power race "PR" series tires at the track, but I have run both the BT-002's and Powers (both the standard & 2CT's) on the track as well and will typicially run consistantly around 3/4 - 1 second slower with "street" tires, no matter the brand. The turn-in with the BT-002's requires just a tad bit more effort than the powers, but not much. I didn't notice ANY difference in stability between the two and the Powers actaully gave a little better feedback in long, long sweeping corners (like the carosuel at Road America). Honestly there really isn't a bad tire now days. I would just give a few different ones a try and go with what you feel the most comfortable with.

_____________________________

05 CBR600RR - RACE
98 Ducati 748S - Street & Track
60 Ducati 200SS - Fun
89 RM125 - Dirt

Thanks to my 2007 sponsors: Two Brothers Honda, Lithium Motorsports, LockhartPhillips TP, CBR600RR.com

(in reply to mountainrider)

Post #: 4

RE: Bridgestone BT-002 vs Pilot Power - 10/9/2007 2:36:27 AM

mountainrider

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Joined: 10/6/2007
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Thanks for the input, Jason

I'm running right around 32ish psi cold, but look for a when warm pressure gain of 10% to make the final adjustment..

It seems that my 20year old dial gauge with bleeder valve has been dropped too many times and is suddenly reading 7 pounds higher than the cheap stick gauges. I set the pressure according to the sticks and the front was well planted this last weekend.

My normal early Sunday AM run is a highly technical 10 mile climb with virtually no straights. It has a few 180 climbing sweepers where you can keep max lean, entry to exit. Most are complex radius/camber/elevation wierdness turns and come at you fast and furious. BTW, Im there after the drunks have gone to bed and prior to the church crowd clogging things up. Tires get pretty darn warm when worked this hard.

Anyhow, no more issues. Time to pony up on suspension bits. I bought this as a track day only bike and wanted a bit of street time to check its potential. Corrected tire pressure elevated my confidence in the front end enough to go for the upgrades.

I've run the PR at VIR north. Liked em a lot! I prefer the Powers on the street cause it rains abruptly in these mountains. I may give the stones a shake next go round.

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Post #: 5

RE: Bridgestone BT-002 vs Pilot Power - 10/9/2007 5:35:26 PM

Jason748

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Joined: 10/22/2006
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I've found that the newer digitial pressure guages, even the really cheap ones and really, really accurate, way more than the stick and the dial guages. I have access to a calibration rig and adjust my dial guage a couple times a year, but I aways keep a couple digitials in the track toolbox so I test them too and they have never been more than a 1/4lb off...

Yea, on the 05 the suspension's not that bad, the shock needs to be about 8mm - 10mm longer eye to eye (which requires either an adjustable shock, or the Trackside Engineering re-build), and the fork springs are still too soft, but the valves are susprising good (espicially when compared to the 03/04 valves).

_____________________________

05 CBR600RR - RACE
98 Ducati 748S - Street & Track
60 Ducati 200SS - Fun
89 RM125 - Dirt

Thanks to my 2007 sponsors: Two Brothers Honda, Lithium Motorsports, LockhartPhillips TP, CBR600RR.com

(in reply to mountainrider)

Post #: 6

RE: Bridgestone BT-002 vs Pilot Power - 10/9/2007 6:25:02 PM

mountainrider

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Joined: 10/6/2007
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"Yea, on the 05 the suspension's not that bad, the shock needs to be about 8mm - 10mm longer eye to eye (which requires either an adjustable shock, or the Trackside Engineering re-build), and the fork springs are still too soft, but the valves are susprising good (espicially when compared to the 03/04 valves). "

I know Ohlins fork springs are a for-sure.

I'm considering an Elka this time for the rear. Most users with other brand experience seem pleased. Visually, The swingarm angle does seem a tad shallow.

Guess I'll have to pony up for a steering damper as well with the longer shock in place.

(in reply to Jason748)

Post #: 7

RE: Bridgestone BT-002 vs Pilot Power - 10/12/2007 10:18:36 AM

Jaybird180

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Joined: 5/12/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jason748

What pressure are you running them at? On the street should be around 32-33 in the front, on the track 30-32.

Dave Moss said that Michelins are sensitive to 1/2 pound. Either I'm not pushing my PP's hard enough, or he's wrong (I think it's me).
FWIW, I run 32/36 on the street F/R and ran 30/28 on the track with good results, cold pressure. I didn't check pressures thoughout the trackday, but seemed to get a better as the day warmed up.

_____________________________

TrackDay Ready 02''F4i
ZG Double Bubble, Galfer SS Lines, PCIIIr, Muzzy s/o, NRC cover, Shift Minder(anyone want it?), Speedbleeders, Vortex sliders, fender elimated, GP Shift
Ohlins, Racetech, Showa Custom Suspension

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Post #: 8

RE: Bridgestone BT-002 vs Pilot Power - 10/12/2007 5:17:27 PM

mountainrider

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Joined: 10/6/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jaybird180

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jason748

What pressure are you running them at? On the street should be around 32-33 in the front, on the track 30-32.

Dave Moss said that Michelins are sensitive to 1/2 pound. Either I'm not pushing my PP's hard enough, or he's wrong (I think it's me).
FWIW, I run 32/36 on the street F/R and ran 30/28 on the track with good results, cold pressure. I didn't check pressures thoughout the trackday, but seemed to get a better as the day warmed up.

It was probably you getting "better as the day warmed up". LOL

(in reply to Jaybird180)

Post #: 9

RE: Bridgestone BT-002 vs Pilot Power - 10/12/2007 8:30:23 PM

Jaybird180

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Yeah that too.

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TrackDay Ready 02''F4i
ZG Double Bubble, Galfer SS Lines, PCIIIr, Muzzy s/o, NRC cover, Shift Minder(anyone want it?), Speedbleeders, Vortex sliders, fender elimated, GP Shift
Ohlins, Racetech, Showa Custom Suspension

Teaching Fun and Prosperity

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Post #: 10

RE: Bridgestone BT-002 vs Pilot Power - 10/12/2007 9:33:00 PM

bmg velocity

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Even a 10$ wal-mart gauge is better than a stick gauge.

It's only good for a few thousand readings...lithium battry runs out.

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Post #: 11

RE: Bridgestone BT-002 vs Pilot Power - 10/13/2007 6:31:34 AM

Jaybird180

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Where in the heck is my digital gauge? Now you've made me want to find and use it more. Thanks BMG

_____________________________

TrackDay Ready 02''F4i
ZG Double Bubble, Galfer SS Lines, PCIIIr, Muzzy s/o, NRC cover, Shift Minder(anyone want it?), Speedbleeders, Vortex sliders, fender elimated, GP Shift
Ohlins, Racetech, Showa Custom Suspension

Teaching Fun and Prosperity

(in reply to bmg velocity)

Post #: 12

RE: Bridgestone BT-002 vs Pilot Power - 10/14/2007 9:09:15 PM

Jason748

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Joined: 10/22/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jaybird180
Dave Moss said that Michelins are sensitive to 1/2 pound. Either I'm not pushing my PP's hard enough, or he's wrong (I think it's me).
FWIW, I run 32/36 on the street F/R and ran 30/28 on the track with good results, cold pressure. I didn't check pressures thoughout the trackday, but seemed to get a better as the day warmed up.

Yep, pretty much any tire will sensitive to a 1/2 pound, but that doesn't mean the bike will be or for that matter especially the rider. I can tell if I'm off by about 1 1/2 lbs or more, anything closer and I don't really notice. Different bikes, suspension set-up, rider ability, riding style, air temp, track temp, humidity, etc... all play into what you should set your pressures at. But what the trackside tire vendor tells you is usually the best place to start.

The biggest way to verify you have the correct pressure is to check them both cold and hot. On a typical track day (I do a little different - but similar when racing) I'll set my cold pressures (29 F, 22 R with Power Races PR's) in the morning before I throw the tire warmers on. Then I'll run a couple sessions but won't re check them because in the morning everything is cold and not up to temp yet, including the rider... Then usually after the third session I'll let the tires cool down and re-set the cold pressures (usually I'll have gained a 1/2 - 1psi) run the next session at a decent pace, come in throw the warmers on and immediately check the "HOT" pressure. I look for a 4psi increase over cold and adjust accordingly - less pressure if you see an increase less than 4psi or more pressure is you see an increase more than 5psi. I keep pretty detailed notes but with all the different things that factor in it never hurts to check.

_____________________________

05 CBR600RR - RACE
98 Ducati 748S - Street & Track
60 Ducati 200SS - Fun
89 RM125 - Dirt

Thanks to my 2007 sponsors: Two Brothers Honda, Lithium Motorsports, LockhartPhillips TP, CBR600RR.com

(in reply to Jaybird180)

Post #: 13

RE: Bridgestone BT-002 vs Pilot Power - 10/15/2007 6:36:02 AM

Jaybird180

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So within 4-5psi you're already on?!?!

Wouldn't checking tire wear tell the story? (Hot or cold tearing)

_____________________________

TrackDay Ready 02''F4i
ZG Double Bubble, Galfer SS Lines, PCIIIr, Muzzy s/o, NRC cover, Shift Minder(anyone want it?), Speedbleeders, Vortex sliders, fender elimated, GP Shift
Ohlins, Racetech, Showa Custom Suspension

Teaching Fun and Prosperity

(in reply to Jason748)

Post #: 14

RE: Bridgestone BT-002 vs Pilot Power - 10/15/2007 5:12:24 PM

Jason748

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Tire wear can tell you a little about pressure, but less than you'd think. Tires "tearing" are often mis-diagnoised as a pressure releated problem, 99 times out of 100 it's a set-up issue, usually too much re-bound in the rear shock. But then looking at tire wear patterns you have to factor in the track itself, some tracks will eat tires others are really easy on tires. Then to add to it the thinner a tire gets the more suseptable to tearing, regaurdless the pressure becuase it can't retain the heat the way it should be.

_____________________________

05 CBR600RR - RACE
98 Ducati 748S - Street & Track
60 Ducati 200SS - Fun
89 RM125 - Dirt

Thanks to my 2007 sponsors: Two Brothers Honda, Lithium Motorsports, LockhartPhillips TP, CBR600RR.com

(in reply to Jaybird180)

Post #: 15