(n00b question) road racing = ...safe? Or, how much does it hurt?
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(n00b question) road racing = ...safe? Or, how much... - 10/20/2007 7:29:51 PM
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SpecR
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The announcers at the 3rd Annual Vintage Festival at Barber MSP today were talking about how they considered road racing to be relatively safe, or at least that it's not very likely that you're going to be hurt very badly. And even that it's comparitavely as hazadous as any high-energy ball sport (like soccer), with less chance of long-term injury.
I saw one guy fall off (I didn't see the bike go down, or why it went down, but I saw him do about 3 barrel rolls and almost hit the Armco, but he still got back up and seemed OK), and they had at least one guy go down in almost every race today, so...
(the ambulance made about 4 apperances...one guy didn't get up for a minute or two)
are the announcers crazy? Or is road racing really "safe" (by motorsport standards). Or does this only apply to vintage racing? LOL
And just out of curiosity, just how much more does an off at race speed (70-100+?) hurt than say, falling flat on your back? (assuming you don't hit anything)
< Message edited by SpecR -- 10/20/2007 7:31:13 PM >
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RE: (n00b question) road racing = ...safe? Or, how ... - 10/20/2007 10:17:08 PM
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Acara1796
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SpecR,
If you are still going to Barber on Sunday look for my friend. She's running in the 350 race at 2pm. #973, red honda, red & black leathers.
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Kim, IL
07 ST1300 - husband
06 ST1300 - mine
99 XR100 - ours
91 CBR600F2 - mine ;)
88 Hawk GT - husband
82 Silverwing Interstate - mine
78 Hawk 400 TII - mine
..many others that have come & gone
www.motocentral.com
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RE: (n00b question) road racing = ...safe? Or, how ... - 10/21/2007 6:40:08 AM
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SpecR
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Nope, I only went for Saturday...
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RE: (n00b question) road racing = ...safe? Or, how ... - 10/21/2007 8:41:29 PM
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woodyracing
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well considering that this year alone, at least two people were killed racing motorcycles at Barber and I know at least one guy that was paralyzed. A 14 or so year old kid was killed at Barber just about a month ago at the WERA regional race there and actually I just read on the WERA board that someone was killed at the vintage race this weekend as well so that may be 3 deaths at that one track this year
here is a link to the thread I saw
its certainly not safe, hell I'm sitting at home with a broken collarbone and some bruises on my brain from a crash at the WERA GNF last weekend and a good friend of mine that I race with had his hip broken the day before and had to have a good bit of surgery.
Crashing on the track is a crapshoot. I've had probably 8 on track crashes and I only broke bones in two of them and even then was nothing just really serious. One example would be my experience at the GNF. I got to the end of the back straight at Road Atlanta and quickly realized I had no front brakes, so I locked my rear wheel (at around 145mph) and tried to slow down. It was one of the most terrifying incidents of my life but I was not hurt at all in this particular crash despite the huge potential for catastrophic problems. The very next day I was hit from behind going into the chicane at Turn 2/3 (going only around 40mph or so) and came away with a broken collarbone, fractured finger, brain bruising (with lots of memory loss), etc It just goes to show you that its not the speed that gets you its where and how hard you land lol
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RE: (n00b question) road racing = ...safe? Or, how ... - 10/22/2007 7:47:13 AM
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SpecR
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Wow, I hadn't heard that anyone was actually killed this weekend. Was it on Friday or Sunday, becuase I was only there on Saturday.
It really makes the announcers seem like a bunch of idiots...
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RE: (n00b question) road racing = ...safe? Or, how ... - 10/22/2007 9:16:52 AM
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SpecR
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(of course, when I say "safe" I mean fatalities and disabling injuries versus relatively minor injuries... I know that racing and motorcycle riding is inherently dangerous, but how does normal street riding compare to road racing)
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RE: (n00b question) road racing = ...safe? Or, how ... - 10/22/2007 7:56:31 PM
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Jason748
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This is one of those things I sometimes go back and forth on... Overall I think racing is "safer" than riding on the streets because your not worried about other vehicles pulling out in front of you, everyone’s traveling the same direction, the surface conditions are much more consistent, those kinds of things. But you also have to keep in mind that you're in a competition. What I mean by that is that in the heat of battle sometimes people do stupid things, and sometimes the results are not pretty. In my view race starts have the most potential for something to happen - You've got on average 25+ bikes (at least here in the midwest CCS region, hell even 30 or more is not uncommon) going into the first turn, literally inches apart, battling for position.
Another thing is on the street you don't ride at 90% - 100% like you do in racing (if you do you shouldn't be riding on the street). Because your riding at such a high level on the track the consequences of a small mistake almost always lead to the bike going down or an off track excursion.
I can't say ones particularly "safer" than the other as they both have their good and bad points, but I personally have always felt safer and more comfortable on track than riding on the street.
Well run track days are in my opinion are the safest option hands down, because you have the opportunity to really "ride" the bike without the typical street obstacles, but without the "competition" of racing.
I've been in many, many crashes (I've lost count), but the majority of the time I've gotten up and walked away with no injury, or minor scrapes and burses. But I've had a few bad ones that have required immediate trips to the emergency room or trauma center (see below). What it comes down to is crashing happens and it always "hurts", whether it be your pride, your pocketbook, your body or all three together. I have plates on both collarbones (did the left one in a highside last year), have broken 8 fingers, blown both knees out, and countless bruises scrapes and sprang, all in about 15 years racing and riding, both motocross & road racing.
If fact, I'm sitting here in almost the exact same condition as Woody... At the last race weekend of the CCS midwest series at Blackhawk farms (September 14th), during Friday racer practice I was hit from behind going into turn 6. I came away with a badly broken collarbone (required surgery to have a plate & 8 screws installed), three broken ribs (and the rest on the right side bruised), badly bruised hip and knee, bruising on my brain (also with memory loss - I remember exiting turn 5 then waking up with the paramedics working on me), and to top it off because I was still unconscious when the paramedics got to me so I had to be helicoptered to the nearest trauma center...
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05 CBR600RR - RACE
98 Ducati 748S - Street & Track
60 Ducati 200SS - Fun
89 RM125 - Dirt
Thanks to my 2007 sponsors: Two Brothers Honda, Lithium Motorsports, LockhartPhillips TP, CBR600RR.com
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RE: (n00b question) road racing = ...safe? Or, how ... - 10/23/2007 12:46:31 PM
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Jaybird180
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Woody, Jason-
What do you guys think was the major contributing factor to you guys getting rear ended? What should have happened differently to prevent it? Was it the overtaking racer being unsafe or were you unsafe by being too slow?
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RE: (n00b question) road racing = ...safe? Or, how ... - 10/23/2007 7:27:01 PM
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Jason748
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jaybird180
What do you guys think was the major contributing factor to you guys getting rear ended? What should have happened differently to prevent it? Was it the overtaking racer being unsafe or were you unsafe by being too slow?
Honestly I can't say first hand, as I have absolutely no memory of what happened. But from the couple stories I heard from people that actually saw it (the corner worker in that corner, and another racer that I absolutely trust that was watching from that corner) is it basically came down to the rider behind me made a stupid mistake or bad judgment call. He was a first year racer that I had pasted earlier that lap. From what I was told I did nothing wrong, and none of the observers saw me or my bike do anything differently that lap than any previous lap. On top of that I also heard that the race director had a very stern talk with this rider shortly after it happened and within an hour he had packed up and was gone, (he certainly wasn't at the track when I was released from the hospital the next afternoon and finally made it back to the track).
I don't really see anything I could have done differently (other than sit out that session) that would have prevented it, espicially considering it was pratice and not a race.
_____________________________
05 CBR600RR - RACE
98 Ducati 748S - Street & Track
60 Ducati 200SS - Fun
89 RM125 - Dirt
Thanks to my 2007 sponsors: Two Brothers Honda, Lithium Motorsports, LockhartPhillips TP, CBR600RR.com
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RE: (n00b question) road racing = ...safe? Or, how ... - 10/23/2007 7:42:58 PM
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Acara1796
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Jason, Woody,
Sorry to hear about your injuries. Is the rear ending common? I've been up to Blackhawk a couple of times this year taking pictures of the CCS races and haven't seen this type of incident. Lowsides, off track runs and a couple of nasty looking high sides. Most of the high sides happening going into turn 1.
The crash potentional is what has me battling with the decision to run in CCS. I know this year I was very satisified with track days. When I raced motorcross one summer I was MUCH younger and bounced easier. I have thought about AHRMA, a friend of my is trying to get me to run.
I guess I have the winter to think about it.
_____________________________
Kim, IL
07 ST1300 - husband
06 ST1300 - mine
99 XR100 - ours
91 CBR600F2 - mine ;)
88 Hawk GT - husband
82 Silverwing Interstate - mine
78 Hawk 400 TII - mine
..many others that have come & gone
www.motocentral.com
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RE: (n00b question) road racing = ...safe? Or, how ... - 10/23/2007 8:25:09 PM
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Jason748
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Actually it really isn't all that common, I've only seen it happen a very few times and that's usually due to a bike malfunction (like a motor seizing or loosing the brakes) or a missed shift. The reason why is one of things they drill into you head in any good race school or track-day briefing is "It's the passing riders responsibility to make a safe pass" and most riders take that very seriously.
I'd say if you feel comfortable running in a pack of bike, give it a try. Worse case you don't like or don't feel comfortable and decide not to race again, but you gave it a shot. Take the Learning Curves Racing class, get your license, run a race, maybe start form the back of the grid, and just finish your race - Don't worry about passing, getting passed or even where you placed, just get that first one under your belt - start to finish. Oh yea, wear the LCR shirt over your leathers - we racers may joke about it having a target on the back, but during a race we do take notice and give you some extra room.
If you have any questions or want someone to help you out who's been there before, let me know. I won't be racing next year, but I'll still be at the track most weekends.
_____________________________
05 CBR600RR - RACE
98 Ducati 748S - Street & Track
60 Ducati 200SS - Fun
89 RM125 - Dirt
Thanks to my 2007 sponsors: Two Brothers Honda, Lithium Motorsports, LockhartPhillips TP, CBR600RR.com
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RE: (n00b question) road racing = ...safe? Or, how ... - 10/23/2007 8:56:02 PM
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Acara1796
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Yes, I am familar with the saying, "It's the passing riders responsibility to make a safe pass". PTT drills it, an excellent organization too.
Well, I can tell you I have no problem being passed. The track days, I would be passed alot more then I passed but I was out there to better my skills not go fast. I know the speed comes with skill. When everything comes together you just oooz around the track. I did get faster as the season progressed, tho.
Thank you for the advise and the offer of help, Jason. I may take you up on it!
_____________________________
Kim, IL
07 ST1300 - husband
06 ST1300 - mine
99 XR100 - ours
91 CBR600F2 - mine ;)
88 Hawk GT - husband
82 Silverwing Interstate - mine
78 Hawk 400 TII - mine
..many others that have come & gone
www.motocentral.com
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RE: (n00b question) road racing = ...safe? Or, how ... - 10/23/2007 10:32:43 PM
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woodyracing
Posts: 1326
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like Jason, all my info is from what I've been told by people that saw it and the other guy but mine was just a freak accident really. If you've ever watched AMA races from Road Atlanta, they put in a really tight little chicane to slow the bikes between T1 and the esses. The guy was behind me and just misjudged his closing speed going into that chicane. He basically went in a bit hot and ran out of room and we collided.
Its not really common but rubbin' is racing to an extent. A group like AHRMA or WERA vintage (V7 is a great class) aren't nearly as bad in that department. Most of those guys are just out there to have fun and usually aren't quite as concerned about fighting for contingency money or championship points and there are fewer "kids" that aren't afraid to race as hard and close as possible to win. That said, its still racing and going into T1 will always be a bit nuts. 90% of the time, though, bikes tradin paint don't crash. My first weekend racing, I got passed on both sides at the same time by two experts. They both bumped me pretty good but thats just part of racing.
I would also suggest doing a school that has a practice race at the end. That may help a bit in making the decision.
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Selling my 600RR CLICK HERE!
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RE: (n00b question) road racing = ...safe? Or, how ... - 10/24/2007 9:05:12 AM
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SpecR
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Most of the racing organizations (and track day organizers?) have rider/driver insurance included in the entree fees, correct?
So you're basically covered up to like $50,000 after you pay the $1000 deductible? That way you're at least not going to bankrupt yourself with a major injury, I would imagine.
< Message edited by SpecR -- 10/24/2007 9:06:01 AM >
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RE: (n00b question) road racing = ...safe? Or, how ... - 10/24/2007 11:55:44 AM
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woodyracing
Posts: 1326
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WERA has a small bit of insurance, I think its usually $5k of excess medical with a $250 or $500 deductible. It is basically just to cover some of the misc expenses that your own medical insurance won't, I don't think it can be used by itself to cover primary expenses but I could be wrong.
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Selling my 600RR CLICK HERE!
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