RE: won't start suddenly
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RE: won't start suddenly - 1/3/2008 1:07:45 PM
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Shadow
Posts: 3630
Joined: 12/21/2007
From: Pinetown, South Africa
Status: offline
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I fried my battery 3 years ago, bought another one, then found I had MELTED the regulator/rectifier. I've now replaced it 5 times, and finally found the source of the problem - the stator had picked up a fault as a result of frying the battery, and the resistance was in the region of 4.2 amps - not good when the alternator only pushes 28 amps. The regulator doesn't fail right away, it takes about 8 months or so, but the first sign is the bike won't start after having been ridden for short distances, but will bump start ok. I agree with JB, check your wiring and charging rate - I think you'll find it will only charge around 11.8-12.6 volts which is barely ok when running, but the bike won't start. Should charge between 13.6-15 volts .When the voltage in the battery drops below 10 volts, the bike won't start or run, just dies....happened to me a year ago. Details on checks are in the manual.
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RE: won't start suddenly - 1/3/2008 11:30:36 PM
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jb
Posts: 132
Joined: 7/3/2007
From: london uk. born nz
Status: offline
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almost the same as what happened to me shadow, but i replaced alt and reg at same time no probs since and excellent lighting
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RE: won't start suddenly - 1/5/2008 1:19:29 PM
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devildogsc
Posts: 46
Joined: 1/3/2008
From: Greenville, SC
Status: offline
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Okay, guys. I'm having less time to work on the bike than I thought I would. Right at this moment, I need the bike for transportation. So my new question is, am I going to be doing further/lasting damage to the bike if I ride it this way? That is to say roll starting it and riding with the choke partially on to keep it from stalling? Shadow, I'm definitely planning on getting it to an electrician of some kind very soon to have those checks made, I don't have the equipment.
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If we had ham we could have ham and eggs, if we had eggs.
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RE: won't start suddenly - 1/5/2008 1:41:45 PM
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TimBucTwo
Posts: 608
Joined: 6/13/2006
From: Upstate NY, USA
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What would happen if you turn the idle up a notch. You should be ideling around 1,200 RPM. What happens at 1,500 RPM.
The only way I can see doing any damage is if the mixture is to lean and you burn a valve.
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RE: won't start suddenly - 1/5/2008 1:44:26 PM
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devildogsc
Posts: 46
Joined: 1/3/2008
From: Greenville, SC
Status: offline
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I'm idling right around 1000 right now, but once in a while it just slows down and dies out. I found that I can ride with the choke out a bit and it idles somewhere in the neighborhood of 1500-1800. It never stalls out when it's this high. Also i've noticed today a weird clicking sound when the battery is fully charged. It used to make the noise once or twice right when I would start it. Sounds like it's coming from behind me on my left. Almost like a clock that's stuck only a lot faster. I noticed it a bit when I tried to jump start it from my car. (just becuase I'm running out of ideas on how to get it to start at all these days) I did manage to roll start it down a hill today, but instead of idling faster at starting choke as it warms up, it died, and then I couldn't roll start it again. It ran for about a minute or two warming up before it died. Is my bike posessed by the spirit of an evil woman?
< Message edited by devildogsc -- 1/5/2008 2:06:06 PM >
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If we had ham we could have ham and eggs, if we had eggs.
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RE: won't start suddenly - 1/5/2008 6:00:02 PM
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Shadow
Posts: 3630
Joined: 12/21/2007
From: Pinetown, South Africa
Status: offline
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The clicking sound is your regulator/rectifier dying - it sits behind the left rear section of your panel, just under the tailpiece. If you carry on it could melt ( like mine did) and damage your wiring (like mine did). It's probably pretty much past it already, so get your wallet out and buy another regulator - there's a company in the UK called Electrex who manufacture reg.recs (much stronger than Honda part, and it comes with a 12 month guarantee) Price is around $116 US, incl postage.I've been dealing with them for 3 years and they are really good. They build a big heat sink into their units which the Honda unit doesn't have. Honda parts carry NO GUARANTEE, so if it pops in a week you're pretty much screwed......Part No for a 1990 model is RR23, not sure for yours but the price list is easy to follow. www.electrex.uk
A temporary solution would be to remove your headlight fuse which wil give you about 1 volt extra to run the bike, but I would suggest you have that stator checked and rewired asap.Your field coil is fried, I think (like mine). When you want to remove the stator, I'll give you step by step info on how to do it - takes about 15 minutes for my bike.
The bike is stalling because there's insufficient current getting to the motor to run it. Charge thee battery every night, and with no headlight you'll get maybe 70-100 miles from a charge, if you keep the revs above 4000. Good luck.
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RE: won't start suddenly - 1/5/2008 6:16:37 PM
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Shadow
Posts: 3630
Joined: 12/21/2007
From: Pinetown, South Africa
Status: offline
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The part no for your regulator/rectifier is RR87, and $130 plus postage - ouch.
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RE: won't start suddenly - 1/6/2008 6:22:42 PM
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TimBucTwo
Posts: 608
Joined: 6/13/2006
From: Upstate NY, USA
Status: offline
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It would look like there is forward progress at this point.
You have two choices:
(1) Follow Shadow1’s advice
(2) Beat the hell out of your bike with an olive branch while smoking a banana driving all evil spirits from the depths of the oil sump.
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RE: won't start suddenly - 1/6/2008 10:22:52 PM
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devildogsc
Posts: 46
Joined: 1/3/2008
From: Greenville, SC
Status: offline
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Yes, yes. Hilarity ensues. Okay, I'm definitely not riding the bike until I get this fixed. I've already had enough electrical problems that I don't want to take any chances with it. Thanks for the link, shadow, for the part. Any experience with a shindenger part? Quality, etc.? I can get one for around 50 bucks if it's worth it. Also I'm going to try smoking a banana in the meantime. As soon as I get the regulator I'll probably try the stator as well, so I'd love the step-by when you get a chance, shadow. Question #b is whether or not I should just go ahead and replace the alternator while I'm at it.
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If we had ham we could have ham and eggs, if we had eggs.
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RE: won't start suddenly - 1/6/2008 11:03:26 PM
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Shadow
Posts: 3630
Joined: 12/21/2007
From: Pinetown, South Africa
Status: offline
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Firstly, smoking bananas is bad for you - at least with happy tobacco you feel a lot better about the problem.......!! The olive branches are good, but you must draw a circle around the bike and have a good shaman present, to rattle the bones.........!Thanks TBT !
Seriously, though, I'd replace the STATOR section of the alternator, not the whole thing, for two reasons:
1 Getting the entire alternator out can be a helluva problem, as there are all sorts of bits on the inside which have to do with other issues, not the current problem.Picture of whole insides for my bike attached, and pic of just the stator. 3 alan-heads, remove the 6 point wiring point, and it's off.(that's of course after you've removed all the left side fairings)
2 Just buying the stator will be much cheaper, and having it rewired will be cheaper still BUT
If you want to do a proper job, don't just replace the reg/rectifier, sort out the stator at the same time - see earlier post from JB (thanks JB)! on this issue.......or you WILL burn out another reg/rectifier soon.....
At least have the resistances checked on the stator and the field coil, which was what caused me so much aggro over the past 3 years .Check manual on the forum for resistances etc.
Sorry no info on the part you mentioned - never heard of it....!
Shout if you need more - your alternator will look a little different to the one shown. Shadow1
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RE: won't start suddenly - 1/7/2008 9:11:38 AM
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TimBucTwo
Posts: 608
Joined: 6/13/2006
From: Upstate NY, USA
Status: offline
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So what is the clicking noise? Are the Honda R/R's solid state or point type?
Has anyone had one apart?
Charging systems are my week area. I know that a car alt/reg uses solid state Positive-Negative (PN) material in the rectifier to direct the AC to DC. The PN is also called a diode. When they get week and fail they let current leak back and drain the battery. When working correctly, they are a one-way door for the current. When they fail they leak current back to the ALT windings draining the battery. They are made of a positive impregnated ceramic butted up to a negative impregnated ceramic. As opposites attract and similar repel, the AC is directed to a DC direction. It is easy to fry a solid state REC when using jumper cables or you are pushing too much current through the diodes.
To my knowledge the point type R/R’s are more like having Tinkerbell flying around waving a wond.
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