RE: Favorite Track?
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RE: Favorite Track? - 1/26/2008 6:42:11 AM
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cozye
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I've never been to barber, but thats the first I've heard anything like that. Most people really like that track a lot? I wouldn't think the AMA would run there if they didn't have the proper barriers and run offs?
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RE: Favorite Track? - 1/26/2008 8:02:12 AM
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SpecR
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They run at Laguna, but that doesn't mean it's a "safe" track. It's nothing but concrete barriers and has several sections with very little runoff.
If you want a safe track, you have to go to one actually designed for motorcycles (like Talladega GP or Jennings GP).
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RE: Favorite Track? - 1/27/2008 1:44:08 PM
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woodyracing
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actually Barber is a very safe track, the fatality mentioned was a VERY unusual incident, the rider was going down the back straight and pulled off into the grass at speed and went into the guardrail, that wasn't a crash zone. Every single track I've EVER been to has a wall of guardrails or concrete on the straight sections for fan safety. Hell Miller is considered one of the safest tracks in the US, but the walls on that LONG straight are just a couple feet off the track.
What bump are you talking about? The only real bump I know of is going over the curbing by the museum. If somebody crashes going over curbing that has been exactly the same since the track was built, its their fault, if you don't feel safe, go around it on the track itself don't blame track safety.
And HOLY crap, Jennings or Tally safer than Barber??? lol, at Tally the "run-off" at T1 is a ditch with trees, the bowl has a concrete wall with tires about 20ft off the track, the Circle puts you into a cornfield and what run-off there is in most other areas just raw field complete with bumps, ditches, etc. Wasn't it at Jennings where a guy crashed and went so far into the woods that nobody knew he had crashed for several track sessions and by the time they found him he had died? Fences, berms, ditches, trees, etc yeah thats so much safer...
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RE: Favorite Track? - 1/27/2008 7:14:07 PM
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rogcbr
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quote:
ORIGINAL: woodyracing
And HOLY crap, Jennings or Tally safer than Barber??? lol, at Tally the "run-off" at T1 is a ditch with trees, the bowl has a concrete wall with tires about 20ft off the track, the Circle puts you into a cornfield and what run-off there is in most other areas just raw field complete with bumps, ditches, etc. Wasn't it at Jennings where a guy crashed and went so far into the woods that nobody knew he had crashed for several track sessions and by the time they found him he had died? Fences, berms, ditches, trees, etc yeah thats so much safer...
I was talking about that fatality at JGP with someone just the other day. From what he told me, the wreck was around T3 or T4? and they didn't have the flag person there at that time like they do now. So no one saw the crash. They added the new flag person because of that incident.
On a lighter note, heading to JGP in Feb.
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RE: Favorite Track? - 1/27/2008 8:02:15 PM
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Jason748
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Barber is hands down one of, if not THE safest track in the country. It had some issues, but was still better than most, when it was opened but over the last few years with the changes they've made...
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RE: Favorite Track? - 1/27/2008 10:07:38 PM
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SpecR
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I wasn't talking about the 14 year-old kid who died there a few months ago (the post that holds the armco up killed him apparently), I'm talking about a man in his 70's who was killed, although apparently his helmet came off...
I don't see why more tracks don't get air barriers, or at least something softer than steel, to put in front of the armco. I'd rather hit tires than metal. (mute point since I don't have a suit or track tires yet...lol)
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RE: Favorite Track? - 1/27/2008 10:44:07 PM
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woodyracing
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That's who I was talking about too, from what I read he was well out of the kink onto the straight and drifted off the track on the right side. Thats not a crash zone, what happened was a freak accident, point out one track in the world that uses airfence on straights? Its like the guy that crashed in the paddock out west, its a tragic accident but its not the tracks fault.
The corners at Barber have a ton of runoff.
Airfence is expensive and tracks don't pay for it, if you feel so strongly about it donate to the roadracingworld action fund (google it)
Have you actually ridden at Barber? It really is one of the safest tracks in the country and Ive crashed their a few times
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RE: Favorite Track? - 1/28/2008 8:31:32 AM
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SpecR
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No, I just rode a bike for the first time today :p
(that might sound sarcastic, but it's true...)
Strangely enough, isn't that the EXACT same way that the kid died? He sort of just drifted off for no apparent reason and hit the rails.
Which makes me wonder why two people would do the same thing?
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RE: Favorite Track? - 1/28/2008 10:00:12 AM
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woodyracing
Posts: 1326
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again, tragic accidents. The exit of the kink is a right hand corner and puts you on the very far left side of the track, the older rider put his hand up on the exit, sat up, and drifted to the right side of the track. I don't think anybody knows why but it had nothing to do with the track. Other than being very slightly uphill, the surface there is completely flat and there are no bumps at all.
The young riders crash was similar, he was going down a straight and veered off the track. Nobody knows why but this is what a spokesman for his team/family said:
quote:
freak accident. I don't think there's a safety crew around that would go out to the track and say this is a dangerous place," he said. "I looked at it and I couldn't envision a way that Connor would be hurt, let alone killed. I, for the life of me, don't think this was preventable.
Unfortunately no matter how hard a track works to be "safe" this is still racing, pushing the limits of a motorcycle at high speeds is never going to be "safe", we all know and accept those risks, its part of the sport.
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RE: Favorite Track? - 1/28/2008 10:12:00 AM
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SpecR
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But one thing to consider is that there is no such thing as a liability waiver that protects the waived from negligence. Hence why a reasonable amount of safety MUST be designed into the track, for the sake of both racers and for the track owners.
Just look at the case of the Porsche Carrera GT that killed two men in Califoria, because the idiots at the track decided to expand the playground area, and made the concrete barrier jut out and face the track at 90 degrees. If they hadn't done that, those guys would almost certainly still be alive.
I recognize that *most* of Barber has a good amount of runoff, but it just seems to me that the runoff areas on the straights (where speeds are highest for obvious reasons) are kind of small. VIR's runoff seemed much larger, in general.
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RE: Favorite Track? - 1/28/2008 12:25:57 PM
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woodyracing
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its not negligent if almost every track in the world has the same thing, ever watch a MotoGP race? Ever seen the pitboard guys? what are they standing behind thats 2ft off the edge of the track at just about EVERY track? its a wall, usually concrete. Straightaways are NOT considered crash zones by ANYBODY. VIR has a wall on the straight separating the track from pit-lane... Its no different at any other track, unfortunately these two incidents happened at the same one, nothing to do with track design, just horrible luck. Road Atlanta is a bit iffy, as is Laguna at a few places (though they actually have a good bit of run-off now, with DEEP gravel pits to slow you down)
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RE: Favorite Track? - 1/28/2008 12:54:43 PM
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SpecR
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I don't mean the main straights (where you have to have a solid barrier to protect the people in the pits), I mean the back straights.
And it seems kind of foolish to assume that no one is going to crash on a straight, though...
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RE: Favorite Track? - 1/28/2008 8:05:55 PM
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woodyracing
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crashing in a straight line is a freak occurence and even more importantly the bikes aren't even pointed in the direction of that wall when coming out of the kink.
check out this picture of the section you call so dangerous. Note: there is a gravel trap to the left that you can't see, but we're talking about the wall on the right anyway. And actually everything on the left side is being reconfigured, mostly to combine the hillside with the vendor area, and I believe they are expanding that gravel trap and moving back the guardrail.
anyway, I think we're gonna have to agree to disagree on this one. I think Barber is a VERY safe track, granted not absolutely perfect, but no tracks are. You don't agree? thats okay, but if you think Barber is dangerous, I would just stay away from every other track in the US because they all have dangerous spots, most a HELL of a lot worse than Barber. But as I said earlier, if you have a problem with this stuff, donate to the air fence fund and contribute to safety rather than complaining about it hoping somebody else does.
click for picture
< Message edited by woodyracing -- 1/29/2008 6:41:16 AM >
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