RE: Good fuel pump on, still no start.....help!
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RE: Good fuel pump on, still no start.....help! - 2/1/2008 9:03:46 PM
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kentuckydiesel
Posts: 70
Joined: 1/22/2008
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I don't have a peak voltage tester either. Went to Sears tonight to look for one, came out empty handed.
Everything else checks out for me. So long as the peak voltage is correct (which I can't check either), then it should be my ECM.
Are you positive the ECM you have is good? I don't have spark or injection. My wires test fine, and the resistance in both pulse generators is almost exactly the same, so I bet they are both okay.
I talked to the honda service guy, he said he's never seen either of the pulse generators go bad, then I talked to the parts guy, he looked in the computer and told me that neither pulse generator had ever been sold by that dealer. Doesn't sound like that would be much of an issue.
I may be interested in buying your "known good" ecm....I can' find anything else.
Thanks, Phillip
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'00 CBR 929RR
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RE: Good fuel pump on, still no start.....help! - 2/1/2008 11:09:38 PM
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k2comer
Posts: 43
Joined: 12/4/2007
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Yep finally got the bike to start tonight. Found out after verifying the pulse sensors were working that it is a short or bad switch in either the kickstand or neutral circuit. They work together to ground the ecm and if not grounding correctly cause the ecm to not ground the injectors. I was frustrated and finally started looking at other things and put up the kickstand to try and start the bike and it started. I need to check the wiring and test the neutral switch, kickstand switch, and clutch switch to find out which one is causing the issue. It shows on the display that the bike is in neutral but still only starts with the kickstand up. It's late so going to look at it more tomorrow. But definitely not the ecm or pulse sensors. I think it's a bad connection because when I move the connector to the kickstand switch it causes the bike to die. Definitely check this out first because I had been working a while on my bike and should have checked these out first. Hope this helps
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RE: Good fuel pump on, still no start.....help! - 2/1/2008 11:31:29 PM
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k2comer
Posts: 43
Joined: 12/4/2007
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Fyi there were two grounds going to the ecm one green wire which I tested and shows constant continuity to ground. The other is a green wire with white tracer that is only showing continuity to ground when the kickstand is up. I think this is where my problem is. If you test out this circuit without problems and still think it's your ecm let me know. The extra ecm I have should be good but will test it out and make sure. If it is good would just want the 100.00 I spent to get it.
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RE: Good fuel pump on, still no start.....help! - 2/2/2008 7:40:45 AM
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kentuckydiesel
Posts: 70
Joined: 1/22/2008
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According to the wiring diagram, that wire only connects to the clutch switch and the sidestand switch.....and you say it starts only when this wire is grounded?
Check also the green/red wire coming out of the grey connector on your ecm. This is the one that connects to the neutral switch, along with the clutch switch, clutch diode, and the starter relay I believe.
-phillip
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'00 CBR 929RR
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RE: Good fuel pump on, still no start.....help! - 2/2/2008 7:52:17 AM
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k2comer
Posts: 43
Joined: 12/4/2007
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Will do thanks. Yep it only starts when the green/white wire is grounded. Will let you know what I find out. Do you know if this circuit on your bike checks out?
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RE: Good fuel pump on, still no start.....help! - 2/2/2008 3:52:37 PM
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kentuckydiesel
Posts: 70
Joined: 1/22/2008
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Well, I found out that I had a short in a ground wire connection. I now have fuel injection, but no spark. WTF? Anyway, it's dark now and my battery needed a charge, so I'll have to do more checking tomorrow.
-Phillip
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'00 CBR 929RR
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RE: Good fuel pump on, still no start.....help! - 2/2/2008 11:14:55 PM
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ReSpEcT
Posts: 345
Joined: 9/4/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: k2comer
Will do thanks. Yep it only starts when the green/white wire is grounded. Will let you know what I find out. Do you know if this circuit on your bike checks out?
Bypass the kickstand safety switch and that will fix your problem (easy fix)....Cut the wires at the plug and twist them together, and heat shrink them together. This will make the ECU think the kickstand is always up.....=-)
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RE: Good fuel pump on, still no start.....help! - 2/3/2008 7:07:16 AM
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kentuckydiesel
Posts: 70
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Neutral safety switch, Kickstand, and clutch switch all check out.
I don't have a peak voltage adapter, but I should still see my voltage jump up at the coils when trying to start, correct? I am not seeing that, I am seeing it drop to 10.5-11.5 volts while cranking the engine over. Hell, I can even see the voltage hopping a little on the pulse generators, and they only do .7 volts.
Also, the manual says this: quote:
Crank the engine with the starter motor and read ignition coil primary peak voltage . PEAK VOLTAGE : 100 V minimum If the peak voltage is abnormal, check for an open circuit or poor connection in Yellow/Blue and Blue/ Yellow wires . If no defects are found in the harness, refer to the troubleshooting chart on page 17-3 .
I cant find these wires....there is a yellow/blue wire on a cali bike for some purge solenoid, and there is a blue/yellow wire on the front brakelight switch, but nothing in the ignition. What are they talking about? Thanks, Phillip
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'00 CBR 929RR
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RE: Good fuel pump on, still no start.....help! - 2/3/2008 9:54:16 AM
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kentuckydiesel
Posts: 70
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quote:
ORIGINAL: k2comer
If you test out this circuit without problems and still think it's your ecm let me know. The extra ecm I have should be good but will test it out and make sure. If it is good would just want the 100.00 I spent to get it.
Sent ya a e-mail about the ECM. I can't find anything else.
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'00 CBR 929RR
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RE: Good fuel pump on, still no start.....help! - 2/3/2008 8:26:46 PM
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k2comer
Posts: 43
Joined: 12/4/2007
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Man what a nightmare. Finally got the bike to start and stay running for a short period of time. Found out that the issue was a loose ground wire up by the headlight. Whoever owned the bike had done some poor wiring repairs at somepoint. All the electrical is now working as it should. I found out that with my airbox off it is fouling the plugs pretty quickly. It is running really rich and after a few minutes the bike dies from the fouled plugs (I also have a full exhaust with the h-vix removed). I have to pull them and clean them to get the bike to start again. I am assuming the rich condition is due to the airbox being unhooked and removed but won't know for sure until I clean the plugs again and reinstall the airbox. Have you actually pulled the plugs cleaned them and tried to spark them against the block? If not your no spark condition could be due to fouled plugs as well.
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RE: Good fuel pump on, still no start.....help! - 2/3/2008 8:36:33 PM
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k2comer
Posts: 43
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Also just from experience I have gone through 3 ECM's thinking that was the issue only to find poor wiring connections and fouled plugs were the only issues on my bike. I can't tell you how many times I was sure it needed a new ecm only to find out something else was the issue. Check check and double check. Before you invest in the ecm now that you fixed the fuel injection issue. I would buy a known good spark plug. Pull off one of your coils that connect to the spark plugs. Put the known good plug in and try to spark it against the engine block by holding it there and turning the motor over. If it sparks you know it's an issue with fouled plugs. If it doesn't spark I would double check the wiring just to make sure.
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RE: Good fuel pump on, still no start.....help! - 2/3/2008 8:55:26 PM
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kentuckydiesel
Posts: 70
Joined: 1/22/2008
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That's actually what I spent my morning doing. Checking wires, double checking wires, and triple checking wires. I pulled apart all connections, cleaned them, used dielectric grease, and tested the terminals while I was in there.
I've definately got some current from both cam and igniton pulse generators, got power to all coils, all coils ohm out about the same, I pulled all my spark plugs today and replaced them with new even though they were all clean, I checked and double checked the plugs against a ground....no spark.
The only funny thing is, at one point after i got this bike home, I had spark, cause it would fire off ether.....but no fuel, although the spark seemed to be intermittant. Now I have no spark, no way, no how.
This thing is driving me nuts. I am pretty much to the point where I am willing to throw an ECM in there to rule it out if nothing else.
I have searched all the message boards, asked questions on them, went and tried ideas people had....still no start.
So what did this ground wire you had issue with go to???
If it's not raining tomorrow morning, I'll go ahead and check the ground wires to the ecm again.
Thanks, Phillip
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'00 CBR 929RR
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RE: Good fuel pump on, still no start.....help! - 2/4/2008 6:05:03 AM
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k2comer
Posts: 43
Joined: 12/4/2007
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I have to be honest I am not sure what it went to. It was a ground wire that was tied to several ground wires up in the headlight harness. It was tied to the frame under the upper fairing support bracket bolt. I can't tell from the splices done up there what all it is tied to without cutting open my main harness. It seemed to be a weak connection so removed it and when it was out the front headlight harness was not grounded. It must somehow tie into the clutch safety switch because that is where I was getting strange readings. I found out that when I turned the handlebars the ground would cut in and out causing sparatic issues. When I cleaned up soldered and reinstalled the ground everything worked as it should. I will check the ECM I have tonight and will let you know if it checks out as good.
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RE: Good fuel pump on, still no start.....help! - 2/5/2008 6:50:11 AM
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kentuckydiesel
Posts: 70
Joined: 1/22/2008
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Was it one of three green wires in a white plug? If so, the solid green one goes to the horn. and the other two go to the clutch switch. One comes from the kickstand switch, and the other to the ECM. Your clutch switch won't supply ground to the ECM unless the kickstand is up.
I'm excited to try that ECM. Hopefully that's the problem, but if not, It'll at least tell me I need to look elsewhere. Thanks, Phillip
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'00 CBR 929RR
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I don't know if that'll stop me though.