Good fuel pump on, still no start.....help!
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Good fuel pump on, still no start.....help! - 1/28/2008 5:50:04 PM
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kentuckydiesel
Posts: 70
Joined: 1/22/2008
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I have a good fuel pump in the bike now, but it seems the bad fuel pump was a secondary issue.
With the ignition on and the cut off switch on, the two relays under the seat do click on, and are sending out power. The bank angle switch is also working. If I unscrew it and turn it over, it clicks the two relays off.
It appears neither the fuel pump, ignition system,or the injectors are doing anything. I tried to hotwire the fuel pump, and even with pressure built, it doesn't try to fire at all.
Ideas??
Questions:
1.What do each of the two under-seat relays go to?
2.The fuel pump power wire is the pink/green striped wire, correct? What does it come from?
3.What powers both the ignition and the fuel pump?
Thanks, Phillip
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'00 CBR 929RR
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RE: Good fuel pump on, still no start.....help! - 1/28/2008 6:36:23 PM
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ReSpEcT
Posts: 345
Joined: 9/4/2007
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Can u hear the fuel pump prime up when the key and the switch is on? There is black/grey wire in the upper wiring harness that goes to the Gauges that will keep the fuel pump from cutting on if it has a loose connection or a short. I forgot if its in the grey connector or the blue connector, but i know for sure its there....That could be a problem IF the FP isnt cutting on.....Also, the factory ground can be a problem...Try to reground somewhere else....=-)
< Message edited by ReSpEcT -- 1/28/2008 6:46:46 PM >
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RE: Good fuel pump on, still no start.....help! - 1/28/2008 8:23:29 PM
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kentuckydiesel
Posts: 70
Joined: 1/22/2008
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Fuel pump does not prime. I will check the black/grey wire. Sould it have 12V or ground? I will also move the factory ground, but I do know that the green ground wire to the pump is good.
BTW,I do have spark, it will fire on ether.
Thanks, Phillip
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'00 CBR 929RR
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RE: Good fuel pump on, still no start.....help! - 1/28/2008 8:36:37 PM
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ReSpEcT
Posts: 345
Joined: 9/4/2007
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Off the top of my head....At ur fuel pump u have a hot and ground wire...Take a voltage meter and put the NEGATIVE on the Positive wire of the fuel pump. Then take the POSITIVE and put it on the Negative wire at the fuel pump.....Turn the key while having the switch on....IF u get ANY voltage on the meter, then it means the Fuel Pump ground is bad and ur getting voltage feedback on the nagative wire (that will stop the pump from working)...Reground the fuel pump and see if it comes on and primes......Sorry i cant recall the colors....If u DL the 929rr Manual it will show u the color codes on the pump.....If u dont have it figured out by Friday, i'll be at home. And i can explain it a little more in detail, as i will be at my house on my PC with all my files then......=-)
If u have Spark, the problem is definately "something" not turning the fuel pump on. Once that problem is found and the pump cuts on, i bet it cranks....=-)
Simple fix, just a process of elimination...Ive been down that road before
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RE: Good fuel pump on, still no start.....help! - 1/28/2008 10:35:43 PM
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HAVOC
Posts: 4553
Joined: 6/27/2006
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RE: Good fuel pump on, still no start.....help! - 1/29/2008 3:36:48 PM
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ReSpEcT
Posts: 345
Joined: 9/4/2007
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From looking at Havoks schematic. They black/grey wire at the cluster i'm referring to would appear to be the fuel sensor wire.....How that will stop the fuel pump from working ( i have no clue). Even looking at that schematic i cant see how it would.....Im just saying that mine on my bike has a poor connection between the plug. The black/grey wire slowly backs its way out of one end of the plug and when it does, it turns my fuel pump off....Plug the wire back in and it works perfect. Honestly i have no clue, how or why....I'm just throwing some ideas as to what i have seen.....
If the lights come on, on ur cluster (then the ignition is working 90% of the time)
Your injectors arent getting fuel because ur fuel pump isnt pumping fuel to them. The fuel pump not cutting on is a DEFINATE problem.
Check ALL of ur fuses and check the engine stop relay fuse (20amp). Its a little fuse by the battery thats all alone. It inline between the battery and the Engine Stop Relay. And check that big azz 30amp fuse thats the main fuse. Should be in the fuse housing by itself, not one of those little fuses (ITS HUGE).......=-)
Can u tell me what the bike does?
Ignition turns on, lights on ignition?
Turns over?
Neutral light come on dash?
Anythig at all....=-)
PS: Havoc, thats the sexiest schematic ive ever seen/ I'm use to looking at PDF files, LMAO
< Message edited by ReSpEcT -- 1/29/2008 3:45:44 PM >
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RE: Good fuel pump on, still no start.....help! - 1/29/2008 5:19:18 PM
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kentuckydiesel
Posts: 70
Joined: 1/22/2008
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Okay, got the fuel pump working.....this is goofy.
It appears the guy had a bad fuel pump, but decided to check everything else first. I can see where everything has been disconnected, and it turns out, he plugged the fuel pump plug into the one for the speed sensor, and vise-versa.
Unfortunately I didn't get to see if it would run by itself because a huge rainstorm just came in and the bike's battery died. I put the cover back on the bike and the battery on charge. The fuel pump was priming, and it was firing on ether, so if the injectors will do their thing tomorrow, it should run.
Hope this works.
-Phillip
_____________________________
'00 CBR 929RR
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RE: Good fuel pump on, still no start.....help! - 1/29/2008 5:58:58 PM
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ReSpEcT
Posts: 345
Joined: 9/4/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kentuckydiesel
2.The fuel pump power wire is the pink/green striped wire, correct? What does it come from?
Thanks, Phillip
Yep, your right. Amazing what a good schematic will make u realize. Sounds to me like that baby should run now.....If it runs, maybe try running and little injector cleaner through it just to be on the safe side...You never know what other peoples bikes have been through.....=-)
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RE: Good fuel pump on, still no start.....help! - 1/30/2008 5:33:24 AM
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BigMike0147
Posts: 161
Joined: 8/22/2007
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I hope you get it running! That would be a helluva deal!!
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RE: Good fuel pump on, still no start.....help! - 1/30/2008 9:03:31 PM
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kentuckydiesel
Posts: 70
Joined: 1/22/2008
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Okay, still no start. The fuel pump is kicking on, but now I have no spark, and the injectors aren't squirting.
Both the injectors and the coils are powered with the black/white stripe wires, and they all have power. The computer is apparently not grounding them (injectors or coils) to get them to fire.
The only other ideas I have would be a faulty cam pulse generator, ignition pulse generator, or a bad computer. I did read this in the manual (pdf): quote:
It must be remembered, however, that when any abnormality is detected in four injectors and/or the ignition and cam pulse generator, the fail safe function stops the engine from the standpoint of protecting it . This would mean that if either of the "pulse generators" were bad, the computer would stop function of both fuel and ignition, correct? But why am I not getting a trouble code? I had the IAT sensor disconnected, and that threw a code. I know they can be tested, but I don't have the proper adapter for my multimeter. Should I just replace them? Thanks, Phillip
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'00 CBR 929RR
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RE: Good fuel pump on, still no start.....help! - 1/31/2008 1:12:08 PM
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k2comer
Posts: 43
Joined: 12/4/2007
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I am having a similar issue and have been working on it for a while. Are you sure you aren't getting spark. Everything on mine checks out and am getting spark but no ground to the injectors. Other than the spark seems to be the same issue you have. I believe my issue is a bad ECM and have finally picked a known good one up. But with the cold weather here and constant cranking durring troubleshooting I killed my battery and now it won't hold a charge or turn the bike over. As soon as I pickup a new battery I will try the new ECM and let you know what I find out. If you aren't getting spark or injector fire I would lean towards the pulse generators. Since I was getting spark and my cam pulse generator checked out and didn't have any FI codes for the pulse generators I believe my issue is the ECM. Let me know if you find the culprit and I will do the same...
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RE: Good fuel pump on, still no start.....help! - 1/31/2008 4:23:33 PM
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ReSpEcT
Posts: 345
Joined: 9/4/2007
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Just out of curiousity, check ur Engine Stop Relay...Not the switch, i mean the actual Relay. Lean angle sensor when it goes bad, it activates the engine stop relay and that cuts off the injectors (shorts out sending + to -, so it doesnt crank). Also, u will notice the engine stop relay grounds on the same wire that the injectors ground at on the ECU (possible that particular ground wire can go bad, but i doubt it without the ECU spitting codes)....Theres is a plug just inline before the Injectors, cam pulse gen, and the cooling fan...Check for voltage on the Injector side of the plug. Use the HOT and GROUND from the plug (if no voltage, try grounding somewhere else). Check voltage on the ECU side of that plug. Use the ECU ground wire also. If u get voltage there, then u know the HOT and the GROUND from the ECU are working up to that point....Basically we are trying to eliminate that PLUG from the "problem equasion"......It could be just that simple of a thing that can cause the problem.......If u get no voltage on the injector side with the HOT and GROUND from the plug. Just change from the plug ground to another ground and see if u get voltage, if u get voltage then u know the GROUND from the plug is bad (atleast)......On the ECU side, do the same thing, IF both hot and ground work there, then u know that PLUG has a bad connection and its not grounding on the injector side.......=-)
Process of elmination, dont rule out the LITTLE things....Trust me
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RE: Good fuel pump on, still no start.....help! - 1/31/2008 4:30:38 PM
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kentuckydiesel
Posts: 70
Joined: 1/22/2008
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Actually checked that all tonight, everything in the plug is good....just one wire that seems to possibly be an issue.....well, the ECM is causing the possible issue.
-Phillip
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'00 CBR 929RR
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RE: Good fuel pump on, still no start.....help! - 1/31/2008 7:30:22 PM
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ReSpEcT
Posts: 345
Joined: 9/4/2007
Status: offline
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What color wire is it in the diagram that HAVOC posted?
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RE: Good fuel pump on, still no start.....help! - 2/1/2008 8:45:13 PM
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k2comer
Posts: 43
Joined: 12/4/2007
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I put the new ecm in and am having the exact same issue still just wanted to let you know that it wasn't my ecm and appears to be an issue with one of the pulse sensors. I've tested continuity back to the ecm and everything was good. I am testing the continuity now between the sensors and the ecm to see if anything comes up. And also going to verify that the sensor ground wires check out. I have the same issue as you I don't have a peak voltage tester to verify if the sensors are good I am seeing voltage but can't test the peak voltage. Let me know if you find anything out and I will do the same.
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