RE: How To: HID Projector
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RE: How To: HID Projector - 3/11/2008 11:58:26 AM
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travisgarrison
Posts: 129
Joined: 8/1/2007
From: Portland, OR
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Yeah, I didn't think to take pics of the OEM until after I installed the kit. I'm sure someone else around here has an F4 and can take pics of their OEM setup aimed at the wall. The bi-xenon bulb I go goes in and out, so it's not two bulbs. Even when the bulb is in the "in" position, it's still longer, so I know my OEM setup is going to have a better light pattern (besides the fact that no one ever flashed their brights at me with the OEM setup. I'd be curious to know what the length is of the H7 bulbs in your bikes compared to the HID kits.
Part of the reason I'm jaded is that many people doing this mod either said that it could be adapted to any bike, or made it seem like that. The only bikes I am not sure that the projector mod would work on is the older bikes that have fluted glass (that is glass that is only semi-transparent and has a ton of lines).
Some people have said that HID was never used in reflectors, and I'm pretty sure that is not true. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that a longer bulb is going to hit differently in a reflector.
The other thing is that even if your beam pattern doesn't have that intense glare above that blinds people, it's prone to hot spots, and unevenly distributed light... but I'll stand corrected if your pics show otherwise.
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RE: How To: HID Projector - 3/11/2008 3:02:34 PM
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ffingers
Posts: 1920
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From: Chicago, IL (downtown)
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i plan on doing a retrofit...however...i can't just yet so i will probably do the HID aftermarket in the meantime...
I am withholding verdict until i see fox's pictures, although i tend to think fox might be right...on an older model...you are probably right travis...
my only argument to you travis is that it seems like a pretty easy retrofit for you....if i thought mine would be that easy, i would do it...however...on the f4i, with the dual headlamps...the modifications to get it to work are pretty extensive...search around, there is a writeup on cbrworld.net talking about how to do it...i am going to have to cut the hell out of my housings to do that...so unless you have time and are not worried about mucking up your housing, have at it...i plan to at one point, but right now it's not feasible...plus i would like to do four lamps...so i can have two on for reg and two on for high...but i have to work it out...
like i said, my only contention is that it isn't nearly as easy as you make it sound when you have two lamps and have to really cut away the housing essentially destroying the original housing....
just sayin...
on to the pictures...
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RE: How To: HID Projector - 3/11/2008 4:15:07 PM
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travisgarrison
Posts: 129
Joined: 8/1/2007
From: Portland, OR
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Yeah, if you don't need bi-xenon, then don't use the e46 projector. It's a fairly large projector with the solenoid. over at HIDplanet.com there are specs of all the different projectors. There are some that are considerably smaller than the e46. On the F4i's and RR's I would go with smaller so that you didn't have to cut up the housing. You would still have to fab a mounting bracket. I saw the writeup on cbrworld, and I would be willing to bet that you could fab a bracket like I did (with a dremel) and with the right projector you wouldn't have to cut your housing at all... not to mention you could still use your stock adjustment screws (that's the whole point of the bracket).
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RE: How To: HID Projector - 3/11/2008 8:07:30 PM
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Blue Fox
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From: Las Cruces, NM
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Like I stated before, the beam pattern is the same with the OEM bulbs versus the HID's. No scattered beam, no glare issues.
Below is the picture of the bulbs (OEM vs. HID) The HID "bubble" and the OEM filament are in the same place, despite the length difference.
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RE: How To: HID Projector - 3/11/2008 10:28:43 PM
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travisgarrison
Posts: 129
Joined: 8/1/2007
From: Portland, OR
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Ok, other than brightness your OEM and HID beams look the same. I stand corrected. So, if this helps, here is a table of the options
F4 and other single beam F4i and newer double beam
Fake Xenon "HID" DON'T DON'T
Legitimately Brighter Halogen Cheapest option ** Cheapest option **
Aftermarket HID Kits DON'T Marked brightness improvement, no glare problem ****
Projector Mod increased brightness, sharper cutoff ***** increased brightness, sharper cutoff *****
** While this is the cheapest option, it will only marginally increase the brightness. Examples of this mod are PIAA and Sylvania Silverstars
**** Significant increase in brightness, and no glare problems
***** Significant increase in brightness, and sharper cutoff make this mod superior, however it requires more work. The cost is the same, but requires an additional purchase of a projector ($35 each), a mounting bracket ($3), and a shroud ($1.47). If done with a small projector, it should not require the cutting of your housing. This project also takes longer than the kit. I've seen the projector, bulb, ballast, and wiring for sale on hidplanet.com for $70 each.
Here are some more pics of the cutoff on the projector:
 
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RE: How To: HID Projector - 3/12/2008 5:38:04 AM
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sixhundredrr
Posts: 2334
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Travis, yours definitely has a sharper cut off. If I wasn't so skidish about doing all that cutting on my lamps, I would do it.
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RE: How To: HID Projector - 3/12/2008 8:58:26 AM
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travisgarrison
Posts: 129
Joined: 8/1/2007
From: Portland, OR
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The thing that would cause people with RR's to have to do cutting would be if the projector is too long (front to back). I just checked out on hidplanet.com and the mini-cooper projectors are pretty small. All the dimensions are available on that site. If someone could pull their bulb and stick a tape measure in there to give me a distance from the glass to the back of the housing, we could figure out if there is even a projector that would prevent cutting on the housing.
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RE: How To: HID Projector - 3/12/2008 9:03:37 AM
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ffingers
Posts: 1920
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From: Chicago, IL (downtown)
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i looked and found that there is a REALLY small projector...2.5" maybe...or smaller...the only problem is they are essentially HID fog lamps...although i could easily fit those in my f4i housing, i don't know if foglamp, even an HID would produce enough output to work as a true headlamp...but i don't know...
i was actually thinking about trying to cram two of the small fog HIDs and two slightly larger HIDs and use the larger as regular and the two extra fogs as "high" and just aiming them higher...dunno...
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RE: How To: HID Projector - 3/13/2008 2:07:40 PM
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travisgarrison
Posts: 129
Joined: 8/1/2007
From: Portland, OR
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If the projector lens is non-colored, and it takes a D2S (standard) HID bulb, then it will output the same amount of light as any other projector. If I were doing this on an F4i or RR I would remove the stock bulb and measure the distance between the glass in front and the back of the housing. It's that distance that will be the "longest" projector you can use without cutting the housing. Then I would find a BI-XENON projector that will fit. The reason I would do that is that you could then have BOTH beams for low AND both beams for high. Since you can't turn the HID on/off like halogens do, the only other way of keeping your high beam is to keep the OEM high beam as halogen. Then again, if you did that, it wouldn't cost as much since you wouldn't have to buy two projectors, and the one you did buy would be single xenon which are less expensive, and don't require you to wire the solenoid.
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RE: How To: HID Projector - 3/13/2008 2:32:40 PM
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jutsin
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i donno im pretty happy with my kit... its a heck of a lot cheaper and almost identical to your results, i dont have scattered light and my low beam cutoff is perfect.. and despite what you said with the "kits" being illegal, your projector setup is illegal as well. Any headlight modification is illegal, so hids on any vehicle that didnt come with them from the factory is against the law. there are plenty of people who aren't aware of this, and assume it is because they aren't in projectors, but there are oem hid fitted cars that don't have projectors (cl's, tl's, more that i cant think of)
So i would change the DONT section in installing the kits to DO and put a DONT on hacking up a 450 dollar headlight assembly to do something that the people who aren't mechanically gifted will do a poor job with.
not bashing you here, but the kits are a fraction of the cost and work just as well
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RE: How To: HID Projector - 3/14/2008 2:08:54 AM
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KidCr3nshaw
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Joined: 10/5/2006
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Your statements aren't exactly correct.
Those HID pics on the left show a dual filament headlight housing being used as HID's. That's a no-no. Reflector mirrors are different inside headlights with high beams, low beams, and those that have both in the same housing (F4, F3).
Granted, it's still not normally DOT accepted to install an HID in a non-projector housing - but the difference is more than measureable.
You're not being completely fair!
Nice work though - end result looks good but the front looks funky now with that projector beam in there. I never did dig the single headlight look.
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RE: How To: HID Projector - 3/15/2008 10:11:23 AM
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travisgarrison
Posts: 129
Joined: 8/1/2007
From: Portland, OR
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Justin,
Your numbers are off. $150 is the cost for the projector mod on a single lamp setup. Secondly, hacking up your housing is not necessary with the right projector. You don't actually have to cut anything on the housing.
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RE: How To: HID Projector - 3/15/2008 2:42:44 PM
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travisgarrison
Posts: 129
Joined: 8/1/2007
From: Portland, OR
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Kid, I think I'm starting to understand why the RR's and F4i's aren't prone to beam pattern problems. As you pointed out, the bikes with two headlights have reflectors built for single filament (not hi/low). The intense beam scattering on the F4's and other dual filament housing is from the light source being in a different position than the stock bulb.
As far as legality, I'm not going to argue about it because I don't know the law well, but I do know that if light is being emmited from your vehicle in a cops face, they are gonna pull you over... even if it's just because your OEM setup is aimed incorrectly. If your average cop pulled me over with the projector, they not only wouldn't know the difference, but there is also no scatter so would not have a reason to cite me. If I kept riding around with my setup as it was before, it wouldn't be long before I got pulled over.
With that said, it seems like single filament reflector bowls don't scatter the same way.
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