Some feedback needed on braking??
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Some feedback needed on braking?? - 3/15/2008 2:02:55 PM
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HockeyFan
Posts: 157
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I graduated into a 2005 CBR F4i after riding for about a year...exactly 4k under my belt. Coming from a Honda Hawk...this is night and day riding experience.
So, I saw an empty parking lot and proceeded to do some slow maneuvers and some braking drills so as to get myself famaliarized with the bike.
The manuevers were fine. However, hitting the brakes front and rear, separately and simultaneously have different affects, as you know.
However, on this bike I ended up doing a couple of endo's never going past 22miles per hour...
So, the first question is when i came down, it seemed like the bike came down first then i came down, should this be in sync, because my butt felt the impact.
Secondly, if this is at 22 miles an hour...what happens when some dick cuts you off and is at a higher speed...what do you do then?? After all this was at lower speed and was in a controlled environment.
Some tips and feedback would be appreciated! Snide comments not so much.
Cheers
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RE: Some feedback needed on braking?? - 3/15/2008 4:59:15 PM
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Carbon_cavvy
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hmmmmm..... i also have an F4i have been cut off and had lights change abruptly, i have yet to have my rear tire come off the ground...... when you emergency brake do you use the rear as well ? i have had the rear lock up and slide around, but never come up.........
---Dave....
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RE: Some feedback needed on braking?? - 3/15/2008 6:09:50 PM
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HockeyFan
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I braked doing the front and rear(simultaneously), rear, and front only to see what would happen. Doing the rear alone will cause a slide as well as simultaneously, if going fast. It was just the front the caused the endo. Further, the Hawk, had only a single disc in front and would never endo.
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RE: Some feedback needed on braking?? - 3/15/2008 8:16:28 PM
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Carbon_cavvy
Posts: 147
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i find the f4i to have lots of bite especially up front... i always use fronts and rears so perhaps thats why i never have it come up....
Do you have braided lines in the front ? that seems to increase bite, especially initially...... i think the f4i brakes will take some adjusting to over the hawk as you have twice the brake up there and a more modern setup...
as long as your using both endos souldnt really be a problem, you can also try and hold yourself deeper in the saddle under hard braking but this can be pretty tough to do when braking hard....
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Corbin Seat, Two Bros CF Slip, Pazzo Blk/Gld Shortys, Hyperpro RSC Damper, Carbon Works hugger, CW Fender Elim, LP Flush mounts, Rim Stripes, black pass seat, silverstar bulbs, Throttlemeister, PCIII, black PC parts, 600RR Swingarm swap, smoke DB shield,
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RE: Some feedback needed on braking?? - 3/15/2008 8:25:40 PM
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dwschultzy
Posts: 1007
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From: Seattle WA
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Keep in mind that your f4i has twice the braking capabilities and less weight. You should not be grabbing a hold of the brakes that hard to make the rear come up! Keep practicing hard braking without getting the rear to come up. You should be able to stop your f4i in a much shorter distance than the hawk with less effort.
This is what I use:
Normal stopping or slowing to a stop = Motor braking/Front brake.
Stop = Front/Motor braking.
Hard Stop = Front/Rear/Motor braking.
These are just the steps that I normally use everyday, but good riding habits will have you using both brakes at the same time everytime!
Welcome to the forum!
< Message edited by dwschultzy -- 3/15/2008 8:33:43 PM >
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RE: Some feedback needed on braking?? - 3/15/2008 11:04:40 PM
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HockeyFan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Carbon_cavvy
i find the f4i to have lots of bite especially up front... i always use fronts and rears so perhaps thats why i never have it come up....
Do you have braided lines in the front ? that seems to increase bite, especially initially...... i think the f4i brakes will take some adjusting to over the hawk as you have twice the brake up there and a more modern setup...
as long as your using both endos souldnt really be a problem, you can also try and hold yourself deeper in the saddle under hard braking but this can be pretty tough to do when braking hard....
Definitely has more bite. Yes, true...it'll take getting used to for sure. It's been a week and the muscles have not acclimated yet...I'm sure there are more gains to be had.
No steel brake lines-stock.
When you mean deeper in the seat...do you mean towards the back end of the bike?
Thanks.
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RE: Some feedback needed on braking?? - 3/15/2008 11:11:38 PM
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HockeyFan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: dwschultzy
Keep in mind that your f4i has twice the braking capabilities and less weight. You should not be grabbing a hold of the brakes that hard to make the rear come up! Keep practicing hard braking without getting the rear to come up. You should be able to stop your f4i in a much shorter distance than the hawk with less effort.
This is what I use:
Normal stopping or slowing to a stop = Motor braking/Front brake.
Stop = Front/Motor braking.
Hard Stop = Front/Rear/Motor braking.
These are just the steps that I normally use everyday, but good riding habits will have you using both brakes at the same time everytime!
Welcome to the forum!
Yes, true in regards to the weight and technology. Yeah, I guess i can practice without bringing up the rear...I kind of spooked myself and or some reason my battery isn't holding a charge.
I try not to use the motor for slowing down. I remember in Keith Codes video he says not to do that. However, he talks about gearing down to slow the bike as a no no...is that what you mean?
I wonder if that principle still applies as the bikes are much lighter than in the early 80's when the video was made. I mean no disrepect to your opinion...just curious. And thanks for the welcome!
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RE: Some feedback needed on braking?? - 3/15/2008 11:21:14 PM
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dwschultzy
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From: Seattle WA
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Not sure if it is a no no or not to use motor braking. I probably have some bad habits picked up over time. Just thought I would give a different perspective of riding habit. Not sure how good it is though .
I do know that keeping both tires planted with the proper application of brakes, you will slow down allot faster than being on your front tire only.
I would probably look into some more recent video or teachings of riding. The technology has come along way since the 80's. They use to teach student drivers (drivers ed.) that it was ok to follow a little closer to motorcycles due to there stopping distance was greater than a car. I am pretty sure this theory is no longer.
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RE: Some feedback needed on braking?? - 3/15/2008 11:26:49 PM
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HockeyFan
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Yeah, I'm sure things have changed over the last 20 years and i will be looking into other techniques/books, etc.. I was trained (MSF)with using both brakes and it "seemed" that every veteran was saying to use only the front, so I've been trying to do that to no avail.
Yes, i agree that both tires doing more of the work is better than the front alone. I wanted to hear what other riders have discovered or basics are still basics kind of thing.
Cheers
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RE: Some feedback needed on braking?? - 3/15/2008 11:57:26 PM
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some guy #2
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I always use the fronts and then hit the back when i'm going straight. At 22mph with an endo it seems you have to be grabing the brakes really hard. I did a panic grab once and that sent me over the bars (about 15-20 mph).
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RE: Some feedback needed on braking?? - 3/16/2008 12:03:32 AM
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HockeyFan
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Gotcha. Yes, i did grab it hard...just thinking if it were a real bad situation i'd want to know what i and the bike was capable of.
Lets put it this way, my butt hurt from doing both endo's...that was from butt hitting the seat, so...and that is at 22mph. I would think that if something goes down i see it happening at higher speeds, even if it is 40-60mph.
Having said that, i could gradually grip the brake in a fast manner, if that was possible.
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RE: Some feedback needed on braking?? - 3/16/2008 7:19:20 AM
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MC_spirited
Posts: 135
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HockeyFan
Yes, i did grab it hard...
...Having said that, i could gradually grip the brake in a fast manner, if that was possible.
You have it with your last statement. You should never just grab or twist or input any control into the bike in an uncontrolled manner. It should always be progressive, smooth and controlled. Slowly and firmly squeese the brake until you feel it engage and feel the feedback it gives you, then start to tighten up your hand.
Another thing about braking, I know allot of people dont use the rear, but in the MSF class they taught you to lock up your rear to get the feel of it. I think it is important to brake to that point. Part of riding is pushing yourself to find the bikes limits and what it likes and doesnt. That way you know what is too much and in an emergency situation you need to be able to brake at maximum potential.
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RE: Some feedback needed on braking?? - 3/16/2008 8:16:05 AM
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Jump1979man
Posts: 455
Joined: 12/12/2007
From: Council Bluffs, Iowa
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smooth even controlled braking will not result in any lift of the rear tire....
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RE: Some feedback needed on braking?? - 3/16/2008 9:08:21 AM
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HockeyFan
Posts: 157
Joined: 3/11/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jump1979man
smooth even controlled braking will not result in any lift of the rear tire....
I understand. What about in emergency situations?
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RE: Some feedback needed on braking?? - 3/16/2008 9:14:13 AM
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Jump1979man
Posts: 455
Joined: 12/12/2007
From: Council Bluffs, Iowa
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HockeyFan
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jump1979man
smooth even controlled braking will not result in any lift of the rear tire....
I understand. What about in emergency situations?
even in emergency situations you can still be smooth with braking....smooth braking can still be fast and quick...
I have needed to mash on the brakes a few times and I have never raised the rear tire, although I have left a nice skid mark and fish tailed the rear a bit...its really hard to put into words typed on how to do it without sending the wrong impression as its hard to understand how you can be smooth and controlled yet still be fast and responsive...
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