RE: Corner fast ... don't crash!
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RE: Corner fast ... don't crash! - 5/15/2008 4:50:56 AM
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Dean0
Posts: 107
Joined: 9/22/2006
From: Preston, UK
Status: offline
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The way I remembered what to do before it felt natural is "push on the side you want to turn towards"
IE - If you want to go right - push on the right bar, if you want to go left - push on the left bar
And YES - it has saved my ass a few times too
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RE: Corner fast ... don't crash! - 5/15/2008 4:55:26 AM
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Juliet
Posts: 2967
Joined: 8/6/2007
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dean0
The way I remembered what to do before it felt natural is "push on the side you want to turn towards"
IE - If you want to go right - push on the right bar, if you want to go left - push on the left bar
And YES - it has saved my ass a few times too
You can look at it anyway you like so long as you are "aware" of it... that's all that really counts here .. for myself I naturally just counter steer by applying the force evenly to both bars ... and yes the whole point of this post is to try and save asses :-)
Jules
_____________________________
WARNING: BIKES COUNTER STEER ... READ *THIS* BEFORE YOU RIDE!!
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RE: Corner fast ... don't crash! - 5/15/2008 5:42:26 AM
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Shampue
Posts: 43
Joined: 5/12/2008
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I try to use countersteering in very corner I can. The bike leans itself. I've been doign this for years as well and for those that commented that it feels like you're thinking about it too much, it will come natually as long as you keep doing it in the beginning
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Austin Schroeger
Manitowoc, WI
2008 CBR600RR (orange)
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RE: Corner fast ... don't crash! - 5/15/2008 12:21:29 PM
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blawjr
Posts: 18
Joined: 5/13/2008
From: Statesboro, GA
Status: offline
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I have a quick question...like I said I'm new to riding. When you come up to say, a stop sign...and take a 90 degree turn to the right, do you counter steer since you're not exactly going that fast? I feel like an idiot asking but I feel i have to since just paid 4,000 bucks for this beautiful machine and I really don't want to mess it up :-P
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Brett
1996 Honda CBR 900rr
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RE: Corner fast ... don't crash! - 5/15/2008 11:25:05 PM
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Juliet
Posts: 2967
Joined: 8/6/2007
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blawjr
I have a quick question...like I said I'm new to riding. When you come up to say, a stop sign...and take a 90 degree turn to the right, do you counter steer since you're not exactly going that fast? I feel like an idiot asking but I feel i have to since just paid 4,000 bucks for this beautiful machine and I really don't want to mess it up :-P
Please don't ever feel silly asking me any questions about this stuff ... I know it can sound confusing and the science of cornering is complicated and an exact one.
It's like if you describe how to drive a car ... it sounds more complex than actually just getting in and driving ..
At low speed a bike handles differently to how it does at high speed ... we can define low speed as sub 20mph here .. so if you are actually stationary and pull out of a turn to go right you will simply steer or turn the bars to the right and very noticeably so too ..there are no gyroscopic effects at these speeds and you are balancing the bike yourself ..
It's when you are over say 15-20 mph that there is a natural switch over between normal turn to steer and counter steering ... once the wheels are at a certain speed the gyroscopic effects start to take over ... so we can safely assume that by 30 - 40 mph you are using pure counter steering to turn your bike ... the gyroscopic effects are what help to keep a bike upright at speed too .. this is why you can take your hands off the bars and the bike continues to track straight ahead ... get a bicycle wheel and speed it up really fast and hold the spindle between your fingers to feel this effect ..also this is a good way of demonstrating counter steering to yourself .. try turning the spindle to the right and feel a force push the wheel to lean left ...
Another point to make which has been said earlier I am sure is that once you have counter steered into a bend and the bike is now leaning over you do not continue to apply force to the bars .. once you are at the desired lean you relax on the bars and let the bike track naturally around the bend.
A pointer set up demonstrates this well and once in the lean mode you will see the bars are in fact steering slightly into the bend and not as some people think that the bars are dead straight and it is the lean causing the turn ... the lean is just a result ..
Jules
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< Message edited by Juliet -- 5/16/2008 2:28:59 AM >
_____________________________
WARNING: BIKES COUNTER STEER ... READ *THIS* BEFORE YOU RIDE!!
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RE: Corner fast ... don't crash! - 5/24/2008 11:47:14 AM
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fishfryer527
Posts: 3684
Joined: 12/5/2005
From: Indian Harbor Beach, Florida
Status: offline
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quote:
Are you certain it's not 'practise, practise, practise', Mr.s. UK.
Perhaps our British member made a mistake in when to use the verb form of 'practise' and instead used the more universally and more American friendy spelling of 'practice'. More likely however, I believe out of sheer politeness, knowing she is on a predominately American forum, she made this decision conciously and with much forthought. I had not realized you had become the Grand Poobah of Spelling, Syntax and other Grammatical Errors. I will consider nominating you for this exhalted position the next time it comes up for re-election. With that said, I would personally like to thank you for spending the time to attempt to research such minutia, you are an inspiration to us all, that is why I thought you would be happy to read the following.
From http://www.wikihow.com/Avoid-Common-Spelling-Mistakes-when-Writing-a-wikiHow
- Be aware of noun and verb differences in words like:
- advice/advise advice is the noun whereas advise is the verb
practice/practise practice is the noun and practise is the verb (in British English)
affect/effect - affect is a verb , effect is a noun. So you talk about the effect of something, but affecting someone.
Although your research was incomplete, I must thank you Mr. Spirit for attempting to make the Internet safe for those of us that cringe when reading 'prolly' (instead of 'probably') or my pet peave 'teh' (instead of 'the'), knowing you are on the job will make me sleep better at night. What you lack in talent, you more than make up for with misplaced enthusiam. I believe with several years of hard work you will be able to become competent enough to attain 'Grand Poobah' status, that title, I believe, is still held by Voodoo.
Thank you SpiritRR, you are a valuable asset to our forum, I will strive to have time in my life to put forth for such inane endeavours.
edit: maybe I already do have the time.
< Message edited by fishfryer527 -- 5/24/2008 12:11:54 PM >
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Best Thread ever!
http://www.cbrforum.com/m_310096/tm.htm
This may be my new nomination for Best Thread Ever
http://www.cbrforum.com/m_664161/tm.htm
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RE: Corner fast ... don't crash! - 5/24/2008 12:02:42 PM
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SpiritRR
Posts: 2277
Joined: 8/3/2007
From: the Paddock
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Thank you. However, Spelling and Syntax are not Grammatical Errors, so I would be the Grand Poobah of Spelling, Syntax and Grammatical Correctness in the Global English Dialect. Thank you again for your consideration, but my research is never incomplete. And the plural noun form you used is 'minutiae'.
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RE: Corner fast ... don't crash! - 5/24/2008 12:16:23 PM
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fishfryer527
Posts: 3684
Joined: 12/5/2005
From: Indian Harbor Beach, Florida
Status: offline
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I stand corrected on all counts...thank you for your dedication and vigilance.
edit: I would like to point out the use of the phrase 'Global English Dialect' in that form is an oxymoron. Global and dialect when used to describe the dominant or original form of a language and not some regional subset is a faux pax of epic porportions.
viz:
A dialect (from the Greek word διάλεκτος, dialektos) is a variety of a language that is characteristic of a particular group of the language's speakers.[1] The term is applied most often to regional speech patterns, but a dialect may also be defined by other factors, such as social class.[
As illusutrated, Global and Dialect are mutually exclusive when used in the framework of your arguement. English is a language, not a dialect, therefore in the afformentioned phrase there is a cornucopia of errors which I do not have the time nor inclination to respond to. But I do believe with some work we can find work for you as a proofreader for many fine periodicals such as 'Archie and Jughead fall off the roof' or ' Dude where's my car? The magazine.'
< Message edited by fishfryer527 -- 5/24/2008 12:38:26 PM >
_____________________________
Best Thread ever!
http://www.cbrforum.com/m_310096/tm.htm
This may be my new nomination for Best Thread Ever
http://www.cbrforum.com/m_664161/tm.htm
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RE: Corner fast ... don't crash! - 5/25/2008 11:15:45 PM
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skribblah
Posts: 31
Joined: 4/9/2008
Status: offline
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quit bitching about the way someone talks and give more tips
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RE: Corner fast ... don't crash! - 5/26/2008 1:10:35 AM
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KidCr3nshaw
Posts: 3688
Joined: 10/5/2006
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Countersteering is present at any speed. Even your, "low speed." In my slow speed video I'm moving so fast my speedo isn't moving... I'm using countersteering.
Fish... 
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1996 CBR 600F3
2002 CXR 400RR Supermoto wanna-be ;)
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RE: Corner fast ... don't crash! - 5/26/2008 2:13:44 AM
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Juliet
Posts: 2967
Joined: 8/6/2007
Status: online
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Counter steering is not present at very low speed because it relies totally on the gyroscopic effects of the wheels rotating .. at low speeds as in walking pace say .. you simply turn the bars to the direction you want to go .. you just simply steer the bike into the turn ..as speed picks up and the gyro effect takes over then counter steering comes into play :-)
Jules
_____________________________
WARNING: BIKES COUNTER STEER ... READ *THIS* BEFORE YOU RIDE!!
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RE: Corner fast ... don't crash! - 5/26/2008 8:12:28 AM
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Juliet
Posts: 2967
Joined: 8/6/2007
Status: online
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Here's a really good page on counter steering and the effects or not of body movement or lean ... too many people put so much stock in body lean and it's just not as effective as they think .. basically steering a motorbike in any kind of quick fasion and especially to avoid objects where an instant change is required is done soley through steering input and that means counter steering ...
http://www.superbikeschool.com/machinery/no-bs-machine.php
I think this bit is important :-) ..
No B.S.
At this writing, we have run nearly 100 riders of all experience levels on this double barred bike. It has made believers out of every single one--in the actuality of countersteering of course. Even at speeds of no more than 20 to 35 mph, no matter how much you tug or push or pull or jump around on the bike, the best we saw was that the bike wiggled and became somewhat unstable. Did it turn? Not really. Would it turn at higher speed? Absolutely not. Could you avoid something in your path? No Way. Could anyone quick turn the bike? Hopeless! The best result was one of my riding coaches. He got into a full hang-off position and was able to persuade the bike, by jerking on it, to start on a wide, wide arc in the paddock at Laguna Seca, a piece of asphalt that is about 500 X 800 feet. Like turning an oil tanker ship, start at noon and be on the turning arc at around 1:00 PM. It wasn't smooth and it wasn't very effective. We now call this bike "The NO BS Bike". There are no doubts in anyone's mind after they ride it that they have been countersteering all along. No doubts.
You can hear riders, who believed in the body-steering method, laughing in their helmets at 100 yards away once they get those solid mounted bars in their hands and try to body-steer the bike. They just shake their heads. No B.S.
Dangerous Misconceptions
Now if you want to look a little further into this, what you will see is this; riders who still labor under the misconception that they body-steer are devoting themselves in a system that can do a great deal of actual harm. Firstly, it is seriously misguided to add an additional series of actions to the steering process. When it is quick, critical steering that is needed to avoid something, that lag I have observed so many times in street riders, could cost you your hide. Adding 2/10ths to 5/10ths of a second, or more, to the steering procedure at 60 mph means that you have just gone another 18 to 44 feet, or more, down the road before you started to avoid that muffler lying in your path. Kids, don't try this at home.
I really like this bit and I do think they should carry labels because it is simply so scary how many people are not aware of counter steering or only do it subconsciously ... you simply have to consciously be able to counter steer in an emergency ... it's a life saver!!
WARNING: THIS VEHICLE COUNTER-STEERS.
IF YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND COUNTERSTEERING DO NOT RIDE.
SEEK THE HELP OF A QUALIFIED PROFESSIONAL Riding Coach.
.
< Message edited by Juliet -- 5/26/2008 8:55:42 AM >
_____________________________
WARNING: BIKES COUNTER STEER ... READ *THIS* BEFORE YOU RIDE!!
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