RE: HTEV & Servo
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RE: HTEV & Servo - 4/21/2008 5:29:53 AM
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pitbike
Posts: 33
Joined: 8/25/2006
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Okay guys..went to Sam's house yesterday and after dissecting the servo motor, we found the expected chewed up plastic gears. He had an identical working servo, so aerospace sealed connectors are on order to build a pigtail wire harness. This will allow for quick disconnect and ability to plug into a data aquisition unit and see how the potentiometer in the servo operates thru a laptop program.
Hopefully there will be more information to provide in a about a week or so, Sam really knows his shit and if this works out, it will be a great opportunity for all of us involved to get rid of the damn MIL light. He has been building servo substitutes for Yamaha's for years thru his company (Samanna Inc.) and has had great success. As soon as Sam or I have any info, we will forward it out here.... I highly recommend giving your business to Sam as this issue may be close to finally being solved for all 929's and 954's!
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RE: HTEV & Servo - 4/21/2008 7:57:56 AM
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KidCr3nshaw
Posts: 3683
Joined: 10/5/2006
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Dang - badass!
Three cheers for Sam, et al!
Seriously, good work you two are doing.
_____________________________
1996 CBR 600F3
2002 CXR 400RR Supermoto wanna-be ;)
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RE: HTEV & Servo - 4/22/2008 5:31:25 PM
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sc929
Posts: 137
Joined: 8/21/2007
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+1 Kid, I got started on mine tonight. Went a little something like this...Pulled the lower and mid fairings, LS, pulled the whole HTEV section out. No big deal, there was enough play in the can band to slide it right out. As soon as it was out the cables were easy to pull off. Then I finagled the cables off the servo, hint--wait until later to do this.
Next to the tank, airbox, etc. Once the tank is up it very easy to pull the servo off the bike. 1 bolt. There is plenty of harness to give it enough slack to move around and get at the cables. Then went after the flapper. A couple screws and off. I couldn't decide whether to put the side stands back in or not, being I have a K&N which isn't rigid. I didn't, left it completely open and put only the screws back in.
So then I'm thinking, PAIR valve??. So I pulled the whole air box( excellent time to pull the other cable), flap, lines, what not. And came inside to look at the old forums, i.e. 929, 954, stuntlife, fireblades, cbr929rr.com. I have read about the marble trick, the stoppers, I didn't have either so left it. From what I have read, no hp gains, just keeps that slight popping from happening on deceleration. I kinda like that so back together except for the lower fairing and HTEV which I will weld tomorrow.
FYI, when I had the servo loose I could not find a place for the home position which Mr. Farris mentioned. Mine is a 01 built in AUG00. I wonder if they used multiple servos depending. I took the pulley off and did find a spot that looked like a center punch so I aligned it there and will hope for the best. Note, I used a small hole to align. 3mm on top like Sam said but I could not get all the way through the pulley with 3mm so I stepped down to the next size allen wrench and aligned with the center punch. This is the small bore, not the hole the cable ends slide into. Just guessing on this but will update. Will hope for the best and no MIL. TBC after the HTEV goes back on.
KID where did you weld yours????
< Message edited by sc929 -- 4/22/2008 5:42:43 PM >
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RE: HTEV & Servo - 4/22/2008 6:24:31 PM
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bignibb
Posts: 557
Joined: 1/7/2007
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I know this is a stupid question, but is it possible to just remove the HTEV and put the muffler section together with the header section just minus the HTEV!?
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RE: HTEV & Servo - 4/23/2008 5:26:42 AM
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pitbike
Posts: 33
Joined: 8/25/2006
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absolutely not.
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RE: HTEV & Servo - 4/23/2008 5:53:38 AM
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sc929
Posts: 137
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Got the valve in hand getting my ducks in a row to weld so I measured up the flanges and they are the same per side. I do not see how the rear section could be moved back 4 inches to take up the space though. The diagram shows midrange to be 4 straight through tubes and top end to be open like a crossover or x pipe. I am putting mine at 4 straight through. Think it allow for smoother flow instead of an interference in the middle. Now thatr it is in hand it all makes more sense. I assumed it would be some sort of butterflies but actually is a big cast piece. Seems to be a waste to me. Will find out tonight.
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RE: HTEV & Servo - 4/23/2008 10:37:00 AM
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KidCr3nshaw
Posts: 3683
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You don't want to do the 4 straight - if so there's no real purpose in doing what you're doing. That's how it is before it's opened at around &K rpms. If you look on the end (exterior) of the valve, you'll see two notches. One is a wide one, the other is narrow.
Tack weld it in place with the wide notch at 12 o'clock. And as far as the weld - just tack it from the outside (don't even have to remove the valve housing, just the silver cover on the front) with a single small weld.
_____________________________
1996 CBR 600F3
2002 CXR 400RR Supermoto wanna-be ;)
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RE: HTEV & Servo - 4/23/2008 10:58:42 AM
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sc929
Posts: 137
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Already tacked it but doesn't mean I can't cut it loose and turn it. Why do you say to leave the opening between the four tubes? I thought that may cause turbulence and being the Hass is just 4 straight through....I guess cause thats how they engineered it for 8K+?? Will it act as an equilizer(crossover)?? Hey THX too for all your input.
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RE: HTEV & Servo - 4/23/2008 2:22:01 PM
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KidCr3nshaw
Posts: 3683
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sc929
I guess cause thats how they engineered it for 8K+??
Exactly. If you do an eliminator (HASS), you're basically putting the bike in a sweet spot that doesn't normally require remapping (always helps). When you do it this way, you're using what came from the factory - which means in it's current state, you're going to gain from having it full open - this is the part where naysayers wil tell you that you loose low-end.
However, I'm not sure if we have defied odds (because it sounds logical to lose some low-end), but I didn't see any adverse low-end and neither has any of the guys here that have done it. And again, even if you did a new map would help tons... (again, always does).
Yeah, break that weld and tack it the other way, otherwise you should never have touched it to begin with!
Good luck buddy - you guys are making me miss mine already... 
_____________________________
1996 CBR 600F3
2002 CXR 400RR Supermoto wanna-be ;)
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RE: HTEV & Servo - 4/24/2008 5:39:57 AM
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sc929
Posts: 137
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Done deal. Idle came down a touch and is a little more irratic. Sounds more like a lopey cam. As for riding. Acceleration is much faster and pulls way harder. Might have lost a touch under 4K, but will be going -1 on the front to cover this. I was looking to lose on the bottom end after all the threads that say you will, so maybe just me but whether or not it is so minimal and not really under 4 that much anyway. I left the pc3 with the same map and may play around with that later but works fine now. Noticed no change in tone or volume. No dead spots.
I did end up leaving the valve in the 4 straight through position. After much debate I decided if it ran like sht I could yank it and move it to the full open pos. (I already had it on when i realized Kid put his full open.) It didn't so will get used to it like this and then change it over to see the difference. This can be done on the bike now in a matter of about 5 minutes. I have some concern about losing more low end by having it at full open. Right now it is like having the header lengthened 4". Note the tubes in the valve are 1.4 and the head pipes are 1.5. Will try the other way and see.
Overall good mods for nothing but time. If you try it, mark the servo position first thing so if it moves it can easily be put back to home position. Will also be a check in the future if a code ever comes up. I didn't get one yet but didnt mark it so not 100% sure I got it right. On the flapper, didn't notice any more noise from the air box. Also the popping on decel seems a little louder and more frequent so do the PAIR if this will bother you. I dont mind it.
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RE: HTEV & Servo - 4/24/2008 10:16:13 AM
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pitbike
Posts: 33
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Sam built up a pigtail for me to connect to a working servo and with the 6 pin connector plugged back in, and the MIL light reset per manual, the flashing MIL light is now gone. Now that I am back to original electrical form, Sam and I are going to do some data collecting so he can get the parameters of voltage/current so he can build a circuit to simulate the servo.
Lots of good info and communication going on with the whole exhaust/valve/servo issue in the last few weeks and there is light at the end of the tunnel.
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RE: HTEV & Servo - 4/24/2008 10:49:54 AM
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sc929
Posts: 137
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WTG Bro
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RE: HTEV & Servo - 4/24/2008 11:52:30 AM
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KidCr3nshaw
Posts: 3683
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sc929
I have some concern about losing more low end by having it at full open.
That's really the discussion at hand! Lol, seriously, to break it down, the only real mod you did was the airobx mod... correct? The way you have your HTEV positioned, it is positioned in stock, below 7K RPM condition. I thought the whole point of the modification was to increase the bikes overall power.
It seems you have gained a minimal increase for the amount of work you have done. I dunno - maybe it's me, lol. In any case I think really the whole point of this is to
1) keep the HTEV in a full open position
2) increase volume in airbox (which is what compensates opening the HTEV, IIRC)
3) bypass the servo motor
4) eliminate the ECU from tripping the "MIL 35 Code"
In any case - I HAVE SEEN THIS DISCUSSION IN A TON OF FORUMS, AND IT HUMBLES ME AT NO END TO SEE THAT THE FINAL, END-ALL DISCUSSION IN IT'S COMPLETION HAS CUMULATED IN OUR HOUSE!
Awesome work Pitbike and Sam - you guys have done some great work and there has been so much learning going on for everyone for such a PITA problem that has, until now - remained the center of much debate.
I think this thread will get very popular in the future, congrats to everyone who took part!
_____________________________
1996 CBR 600F3
2002 CXR 400RR Supermoto wanna-be ;)
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RE: HTEV & Servo - 4/24/2008 11:54:30 AM
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KidCr3nshaw
Posts: 3683
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It should be noted, that so far - this is the cheapes, simplest alternative that I have come across. Depending on what this new pigtail ends up costing, this could be $25+ your time solution, not a quick-fix.
_____________________________
1996 CBR 600F3
2002 CXR 400RR Supermoto wanna-be ;)
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RE: HTEV & Servo - 4/24/2008 12:43:29 PM
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sc929
Posts: 137
Joined: 8/21/2007
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I don't think I see the whole picture from your point. Like I said I woulod have opened it up all the way but already had it on the bike and will try the other too. It is too easy not to. I don't think the flapper mod does a whole lot to start. The point of any aftermarket exhaust is to have open free flow. With the Hass you have basically longer head pipes. Also at midrange position same as the Hass with a slightly smaller tube in the end. 1.5 into 1.4 then 2 into 1. With the valve full open you have 1.5 into 1.4 with an open area the back to 1.4 to 2 to 1. I got to believe this is an area for turbulence and that should cause backpressure. I am guessing it doesn't much because thats how it is when the engine is at top end. I am going to try it after I get a feel for this way. I am not sure it will matter much. I gotta believe with the results we got this whole setup was an emissions thing more then a help with the low end thing. Like I said I don't think I see where you are coming from and surely not trying to be a dick avbout it. 4 through is way better then 4 into 2 like orig low end. I just dont know that there will be much difference in the way I got it and how you have it. Will find out though. You know on all the threads I read on this and a lot there was a lot of different methods for the mod, but nobody got as deep as the pipe position and overcoming the servo, whatnot. So you know +1 from me too, thx to both of you and all who contribute. I post up the results of the flip when I do it.
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