Fuel pump woes
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Fuel pump woes - 5/21/2008 3:13:56 PM
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Butsky
Posts: 34
Joined: 4/16/2008
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My bike keeps running out of fuel with tank full. I am not getting any voltage to the fuel pump. Is the fuel relay gone, or can there be some other problem?? HELP!
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RE: Fuel pump woes - 5/21/2008 4:18:33 PM
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Butsky
Posts: 34
Joined: 4/16/2008
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FURTHER UPDATE>>> My bike ran ok on highway, but eventually exibited a "run out of fuel" condition. The bike would not restart after stalling out at high speed. Started up ok on the NEXT day, when fuel seemed to get to the carbs then. What do you think is happening????????
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RE: Fuel pump woes - 5/21/2008 5:06:34 PM
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redzintimidator
Posts: 1267
Joined: 8/6/2007
From: Greene, NY
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fuses?
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RE: Fuel pump woes - 5/22/2008 4:19:41 PM
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Butsky
Posts: 34
Joined: 4/16/2008
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Nope! Fuses are fine...so..I ordered a new pump, filter and cut off relay from my dealer; With over 77,000km on it, that can`t be a really bad idea! Lol!
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RE: Fuel pump woes - 5/22/2008 5:56:32 PM
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redzintimidator
Posts: 1267
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From: Greene, NY
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well...lets see how that goes. if not good well go from there
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RE: Fuel pump woes - 5/22/2008 6:31:58 PM
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pacemaker
Posts: 1485
Joined: 7/18/2006
From: Newcastle, N.S.W. Australia
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Could be the regulator as well, thats one of the symptoms when that start to pack up. Not enough charge to keep everything running.
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RE: Fuel pump woes - 5/23/2008 9:17:50 AM
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dusterdude
Posts: 163
Joined: 8/27/2007
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take it out and wait for it to die,then pop the cap and wait a couple of seconds and put it back on and see if the bike starts.
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RE: Fuel pump woes - 5/23/2008 2:20:59 PM
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Butsky
Posts: 34
Joined: 4/16/2008
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Well, I did pop the fuel cap, reasoning that it was vent related, but, alas, it wasn`t! I suppose it takes a while to flow down through a non-functioning fuel pump/filter, then fill the bowls. I should have the parts in a few days and see what the results are. Electrical power is way up, in fact it took quite a few minutes of cranking attempts for the newish batteryto get low; The alternator was replaced about 3,000km. ago. Yikes! Lol!
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RE: Fuel pump woes - 6/28/2008 7:17:57 AM
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idodirt
Posts: 627
Joined: 8/14/2006
From: South Florida, USA
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BUMP...
So, what happened after you replaced the fuel pump, relay and filter ? Did it fix the problem ?
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RE: Fuel pump woes - 6/28/2008 11:08:55 AM
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Butsky
Posts: 34
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Yes, things worked great after that episode. I suspect that the tilt relay was at fault and the pump was "weak". Runs swell now!
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RE: Fuel pump woes - 6/28/2008 4:05:44 PM
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idodirt
Posts: 627
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From: South Florida, USA
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Im glad to hear that. Did you purchase a new or used fuel pump ?
About a month ago my wifes F3 had an episode similar to yours. When pulling away from a light it sputtered caughed and died. Wouldnt start. By the time I got back to her ( took a few minutes to realize she wasnt there) She had pushed it up onto the sidewalk. It had plenty of fuel. She tried reserve anyway, but no help. I tried it with the choke, it caughed, then started. Turned off the choke and all seemed ok. We went home just in case.
The next day I checked the operation of the Fuel Cut Relay as well as performed a "Flow" test on the fuel pump. All checked out ok. Things have been fine since then, until last night. Shes at highway speed and it seems like its running out of fuel. She tries the reserve but no help. This time I noticed a little sooner, but still ended up about a 1/3rd mile from her. Went to the next exit, made loop and went back to her. She said it was exactly like it was running out of gas. The same experience as when you''re about to go onto reserve, although this time we had just filled up 15 miles before. Everything worked fine but just wouldnt start. Again I used the choke, turned it over a couple of times and it started again. We switched bikes and I rode hers to our destination, and then home later that night. No problems at all.
Fuel Pump Location
Im figuring, based on her description it has to be a fuel problem. If it was ignition, then it wouldnt seem like it was out of gas, it would just loose power instantly, kindof like turning off a switch. Today I replaced the fuel filter and removed the fuel petcock from the tank to check for blockages. The tank is spotless as was the fuel strainer in the tank. The fuel filter was old, but I could still blow air through it pretty easily, but for $16 I figured Id replace it anyway.
I started studying the fuel pump and how it works to try to troubleshoot it. The fuel pumps in our bikes are not like those in fuel injected bikes. Those pruduce high pressure/volume for the injectors. Ours is a solinoid type of pump. It works by receiving a pulse signal via the contacts in the Fuel Cut Relay from the same signal that goes to one of the Ignition Coils. If you put your hand on the fuel pump while the bike is running, you can feel the pulses. You feel them more if you turn the fuel petcock off. This has the effect of reducing the amount of fuel the pump can draw in. This allows the the internal solinoid to fire more often. When the engine speed is slow, so is the fuel flow. Subsequently, the resistance the pump feels is high and you"ll only feel a couple of clicks of the solinoid per second.
Feeling while engine running.
One of the advantages of having 2 F3"s is the ability to compare the 2 bikes. On my F3 there is a very consistant click or pulse every second. Where as my wifes F3 may go as long as 20 or 30 seconds between clicks while idling.
The voltage signals remain constant to the fuel pump the entire time. Checking the voltage going to the pump is a little tough because it doesn"t receive a continious supply of voltage. Remember that it is receiving the same on/off signal that one of the ignition coils receives. Because of this, you"ll only read about 6 to 8 volts DC going to the fuel pump. I compared both bikes and they get the same. In fact, if you have a meter that is able to measure Hz, its getting about 20hz or 20 signals per second. (sorry, I was just currious)
The bottom line is that I can feel the operation of the fuel pump and its not consistant in it"s operation. I"m very sure that her fuel pump is getting weak, or possibly binding internally. Letting it sit for a few minutes allows it to free up and start working again.
I"ll be ordering a new pump tonight. I"ll let you know how it does.
< Message edited by idodirt -- 6/28/2008 4:43:43 PM >
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On the shore of Lake Okeechobee.
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RE: Fuel pump woes - 6/28/2008 5:12:59 PM
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Adionik
Posts: 35
Joined: 6/14/2008
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How much is the fuel pump?
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RE: Fuel pump woes - 6/28/2008 5:44:19 PM
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idodirt
Posts: 627
Joined: 8/14/2006
From: South Florida, USA
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It will be about $107 plus shipping from ServiceHonda. Retail is about $150 which is what the local dealer quoted me today.
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On the shore of Lake Okeechobee.
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RE: Fuel pump woes - 6/29/2008 9:27:59 AM
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Butsky
Posts: 34
Joined: 4/16/2008
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Yep, those mysterious fuel gremlins! My first 98 F3 would made an audible sound when ign. switch was turned on. When running, with the fuel shut off for a few seconds, it would really "click" when trying to pump. My `97 (same color as your ladie`s)F3 made no such noises, ever, and it was the problematic one. I bought all new stuff from my Honda dealer, and that cured the problem. Our latest `98 Smokin Joes makes no sounds, like the `97, and is fine and dandy. It has 52,000km on it and the `97 had 78,000km on it. Perhaps these pumps can have intermittent woes, even if the tip over relay is fine. Hmmmm!
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2000 CBR929 & CBR600F3 Smokin` Joes
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