RE: WTF IS IT COMING TO
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RE: WTF IS IT COMING TO - 6/19/2008 9:08:51 AM
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fishfryer527
Posts: 3684
Joined: 12/5/2005
From: Indian Harbor Beach, Florida
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quote:
cocaine marijuana used to be legal and it was nothing like what you say "would" happen if drugs were legal.
Sears used to sell heroin and opium that is true, but if you cannot see that getting stoned has a negative impact on society then you must be stoned right now. The fact that booze is legal is really just a political consequence of how much the Government can control the people. But look at the harsh penalties for selling untaxed booze and drunk driving and you can easily see that alcohol is not loved by the government. Another example is cigarettes: taxable moneymaker, but bad for America in so many ways. But try and sell it untaxed and you will get reamed, it is poison, like booze and pot, but the government allows it.
Things are illegal because they either are:
1) bad for society
2) against religious teachings
3) difficult to tax
4) do not support national security
You can believe what you want about the white mans paranoia or any other nonsense that someone said under oath, but that is probably due to the number of brain cells you have lost due to your drug use.
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RE: WTF IS IT COMING TO - 6/19/2008 9:11:39 AM
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woo545
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"A recently passed anti-crime law requires criminals to give their victims 24 hours notice, either orally or in writing, and to explain the nature of the crime to be committed..."
Um...is that like a contract? Are the terms negotiable?
I think prisons are a flawed concept. If the money is not spent on some sort of rehabilitation, then its nothing but a drain on the resources. Maybe we should put up a huge wall around NYC and keep the scorn of our society there?
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RE: WTF IS IT COMING TO - 6/19/2008 9:21:32 AM
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fishfryer527
Posts: 3684
Joined: 12/5/2005
From: Indian Harbor Beach, Florida
Status: offline
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quote:
I think prisons are a flawed concept. If the money is not spent on some sort of rehabilitation, then its nothing but a drain on the resources.
Some psycologists would argue that those that cannot live by the rules of society are mentally ill. Some legal scholars feel that mentally ill people shouldn''t be in prison, they should be nurtured and helped. What you are suggesting is group therapy or medication for thieves and drug dealers rather than removing them from society. The purpose of jail is to punish them keep them away from you and me, not to make them better people.
If you really want to drain resources, look at the cost of psychologists and therapy for every person in prison...
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RE: WTF IS IT COMING TO - 6/19/2008 9:38:27 AM
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OKIEZAC
Posts: 1996
Joined: 6/16/2007
From: Edmond, OK-Mammoth Lakes, CA- currently Ithaca, NY
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: fishfryer527
quote:
cocaine marijuana used to be legal and it was nothing like what you say "would" happen if drugs were legal.
Sears used to sell heroin and opium that is true, but if you cannot see that getting stoned has a negative impact on society then you must be stoned right now. The fact that booze is legal is really just a political consequence of how much the Government can control the people. But look at the harsh penalties for selling untaxed booze and drunk driving and you can easily see that alcohol is not loved by the government. Another example is cigarettes: taxable moneymaker, but bad for America in so many ways. But try and sell it untaxed and you will get reamed, it is poison, like booze and pot, but the government allows it.
Things are illegal because they either are:
1) bad for society
2) against religious teachings
3) difficult to tax
4) do not support national security
You can believe what you want about the white mans paranoia or any other nonsense that someone said under oath, but that is probably due to the number of brain cells you have lost due to your drug use.
go sip another appletini with your boyfriend..
i like how you make me sound uneducated because i lose brain cells smoking pot.. ooooooo... your so old and wise..
get a grip man.. you call it nonsense under oath because its not what you like to hear..
pshh.. donkey
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RE: WTF IS IT COMING TO - 6/19/2008 9:41:37 AM
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OKIEZAC
Posts: 1996
Joined: 6/16/2007
From: Edmond, OK-Mammoth Lakes, CA- currently Ithaca, NY
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: fishfryer527
quote:
I think prisons are a flawed concept. If the money is not spent on some sort of rehabilitation, then its nothing but a drain on the resources.
Some psycologists would argue that those that cannot live by the rules of society are mentally ill. Some legal scholars feel that mentally ill people shouldn''''t be in prison, they should be nurtured and helped. What you are suggesting is group therapy or medication for thieves and drug dealers rather than removing them from society. The purpose of jail is to punish them keep them away from you and me, not to make them better people.
If you really want to drain resources, look at the cost of psychologists and therapy for every person in prison...
where do you get this garbage.. almost every country with rehabilitation programs has shown much more progress than the US in the ways of less re offenders....
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RE: WTF IS IT COMING TO - 6/19/2008 9:44:14 AM
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OKIEZAC
Posts: 1996
Joined: 6/16/2007
From: Edmond, OK-Mammoth Lakes, CA- currently Ithaca, NY
Status: offline
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im on vacation im done with this. . .
i love the fact that this country is full of different opinions i just dont know where alot of you uber conservatives get your garbage..
quit worrying about other peoples choices and worry about yourself.
Conservatives = excellent example of the lil girl on the school bus that would never mind her own business then she would shoot spit wads with you and rat you out when poopie was hitting the fan..
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RE: WTF IS IT COMING TO - 6/19/2008 10:56:58 AM
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offdznutz
Posts: 135
Joined: 10/21/2007
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^^your proving his point^^ yes you need to think of yourself but thats why this country is the way it is. everybody helps themselves, eventually it turns into greed.
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RE: WTF IS IT COMING TO - 6/19/2008 11:56:48 AM
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dizzie56
I loves the fat chics
Posts: 2070
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Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely.
This is the main problem with the far right and even the far left winged people of the world. They get so blinded by the cause that they think is right that they do anything just to get the end results. The ends justify the means, so to speak. Now, dont get me wrong, in some cases the ends do justify the means when its something small. But when the means end up being just getting rid of thousands of people cause you dont like them or something that they did is just complete bs.
The real prolem with this country is that there are far to many far left and far right winged people here. Politics is filled with such people (and in case you didnt know, they tend to make up the laws that govern us as a whole). All they do is bicker and swap money around to whoever they can in order to get their way. Prime example, the Iran/Contra thing in the ''80''s. The government swapped out arms and drugs to make money to make sure that their wasnt a nother red country. They put drugs in our streets and weapons in the hands of our enemies. We helped make the taliban, the vietcong, helped get saddam in power and the list goes on and on and on. Do the means justify the ends there?
The same goes for doing away with all drug dealers and addicts and other "non-desireables" so to speak. Would your blood lust be done after getting rid of all these people? Or would it turn on something else, like it has happened oh so many times in history?
And let me say one more thing, this time about rehabilitation. My lil brother was one of those addicts that you would just do away with, assholes. But thank God Almighty jackasses like yourselves are not in control. Today, with rehabilitation, he is clean and now a productive member of society. Now, I have seen both sides of the coin as far as rehabilitation goes. Ive seen some gangbanger friends of mine go to jail once over something small the first time and then like fishfryer said, its just a slippery slope from there. But ive also seen a man that did 15 years in Sing Sing for kidnapping and attempted murder (over a drug dispute, no less) and come out and be a completely productive member of society. He was also an army special forces sniper in vietnam before all that. I also know a man personaly that has done 23 YEARS in some of the most facked up FEDERAL prisons in the US and come out now at almost 70 years old and is trying his fackin darndest to be productive.
So, as you can see, rehab does work. But i can gaurantee you that on the ones that it dont, its because they dont have any type of support structure what so ever. And doing away with them is just sad, really is. Thats like gettin rid of all pit bulls cause one bit somebody cause his owners before him didnt teach em right or wrong. All criminals are not viscious, but the ones that are, can be taught otherwise given enough time and care.
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RE: WTF IS IT COMING TO - 6/19/2008 2:02:06 PM
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HARDCORP 8654
Posts: 1339
Joined: 4/23/2007
Status: online
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dizz going to take a little different approach with you than I normally do. And let''s see how this works out. You presented viewpoint which is more middle-of-the-road-one which is the one those in power are try to paint. Whether you see that are not, that is a fact they want those who have broken the countless number of laws. We already have in place to be in prison and rehabilitated in some way. And those who are addicted to narcotics to obtain help for this problem. That is the basis of the system we are now currently using. Is it working ? You re viewpoint is more middle-of-the-road than hard-liners such as myself and those on the other end of the spectrum, who think we need opium dens on every corner. If the system could be fixed to work without corruption and without biased than I would be the happiest man on the planet. Are their honest, good people in this country to fulfill that dream. Could you fill a room with those you are surrounded by right now in life ? I agree with you on the subject of politicians. I''m absolutely for a Bastille Day in America. I think it''s long overdue. It''s almost transparently clear that we cannot vote or elect our way out of the problems that we are in. This is another thing I wish was not true, and I keep hoping and praying that something will give and their will be a light at the end of the tunnel or maybe we the people, because Under a true republic. The people, we the people have the power, not those sitting on their ass in the Nation''s capital. I would love to be able to work through the political system, in effect positive change. Do you honestly believe currently possible to do ?
I honestly believe without some tough love and sacrifice for all of us as a whole. Your brother''s children your children and my children will never have a chance to experience any form of the American dream. I personally have friends and family who have lost their lives and their livelihood to drug addiction. My statements were not made off the cuff, and not without long hard thought and it''s not a decision that anyone would rush to quickly. I have seen the devastation that habitual drug use can cause more than one time firsthand. how, I wish there was an easy answer for this problem. But there''s not I wish rehab was automatic on a first drug conviction a program that effect a positive change is that happening right now everywhere ?
True story MSgt Young had raised his children, lost his daughter to a accident that killed her husband also, and his 28-year-old son was addicted to crack. He had him in and out of rehab programs numerous times to no avail. Now had taken custody of his grandchildren. They had been living with him for a year. When one day his 29 year old son showed up on the doorstep, who had not changed his ways and was looking for a place to crash. Frank had no choice but to send him away. It was for the good of the household and the sake of the grandchildren. He had done all he could for his 29 year old son and I watched a Hardened Tough Warrior struggle for weeks with his decision to the point where he almost couldn''t function. But for the collective whole, he had made the right choice . Living with the right choice for the collective whole sometimes requires more than an individual thinks he can bring to bear. But is necessary for the strength of the whole.
< Message edited by HARDCORP 8654 -- 6/19/2008 2:32:14 PM >
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RE: WTF IS IT COMING TO - 6/19/2008 2:48:40 PM
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fishfryer527
Posts: 3684
Joined: 12/5/2005
From: Indian Harbor Beach, Florida
Status: offline
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quote:
And let me say one more thing, this time about rehabilitation. My lil brother was one of those addicts that you would just do away with, assholes. But thank God Almighty jackasses like yourselves are not in control. Today, with rehabilitation, he is clean and now a productive member of society.
I guess the answer to this is to try and figure out a way to select the people with the higher probability of success. Maybe there needs to be a better method of screening out those like your brother than can be salvaged versus those like charlie manson that can''t be. This way more resources are put in the right direction and less can go towards lost causes.
Thanks Dizz...I have a new stand on this topic.
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RE: WTF IS IT COMING TO - 6/19/2008 2:52:35 PM
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fishfryer527
Posts: 3684
Joined: 12/5/2005
From: Indian Harbor Beach, Florida
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quote:
go sip another appletini with your boyfriend..
Good one, but I am actually dating a 27 year old ex-runway model now...yes she is 18 years younger than me...yes she is 6 foot tall blond blue eyed...yes you should be jealous of me...but if you ever want to split an appletini, well get pedicures and make a day out of it.
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RE: WTF IS IT COMING TO - 6/19/2008 5:37:34 PM
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dizzie56
I loves the fat chics
Posts: 2070
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hc...your friend did the right thing in letting that kid go. a friend of the family has had the same problem. hell, i remember a story of one time the kid showed up all coked up to work and his father along with some people in my family and some other friends beat the bloody pulp outa him. Eventually, his father just told him to go away and hasnt spoken to him since. I agree, that is the right thing to do. But your previous statements, along with some of that cats swingin on your nuts all said that we should just publicly execute them on the first try. Do you honestly believe that will work? Im all for tough love man, trust me, its how i was raised. I do have some extreme conservative morals and also some more liberal ones. Like you said, im middle of the road. But to just kill of a drug dealer or addict just cause they committed the act isnt right and def wont stop it no matter what. Somebody said in this discussion that some country in Asia in fact does this. Do they think that it honestly stops the drugs from being grown and shipped outa that country? If so, i can assure you, as a former drug dealer, lil thief, pot-smoken asshole...they dont. Another jackass just steps up to fill the void.
Im not dissagreeing with anybody on the fact that drugs are bad...for most people. Yeah, there are those people that can smoke pot all day (i used to be one) and there would be nothing wrong with most of their actions. Just like the guy that likes to go home and have a beer at the end of the day, alot of people like to go home and smoke a lil bowl and thats it. No gangbangin, no murderin, no theiven...nothing. Just love to chillout at the end of the day. And to me that is fine. What ever floats your boat homies. You only have one life to live and you should do what makes you happy. But, for most people that get involved with drugs, that aint it. Alot of people cant just stop after one blunt to the head. They move on to some drink to, then one beer aint enough, then they do a lil key bump, then an eight ball in the night and so on and so on. I live in Florida, drug capital of the world. I have lived this shite since i old enough to know what drugs were. Drugs do ruin alot of peoples lives and yeah, most of them should be outlawed. But not to the extant offin the guy.
And you also say rehab doesnt work for the most part. And i totally agree...for the most part. But do you honestly have any clue as to what happens to somebody when they get thrown in prison? Honestly, any at all? Ive been fortunate enough not to have to ever go there, but ive heard alot of different stories from alot of different people and its like hell on earth. My friend that was in sing sing was fortunate enough, he told me, that he got out when the gangs first started gettin in there. He remembers kids younger than me gettin thrown in prison and just takin a pencil and stabbin a guy to death just to prove that he was tough enough to not be f''ed with. Im not saying that them gettin thrown in prison and doin some hard time aint right. Yeah, they need to get punished. But honestly, most of the time they dont, and instead just end up thinkin bout how they got caught and how they gonna trick the system next time. And instead of throwin a blind eye to that and just sayin "Lets just get rid of them", i think it is our communities responsibility to ask why is that. Why does somebody just go in on a small crime and come out a hardened career criminal that is smarter, meaner, and more ballsy?
My answer to that is just like the kids in school not havin enough teachers to go around and teach them whats right and wrong. Instead, the prisoners teachers are higher up shotcallers that run life in the prison and alot of crap on the outside as well. Overcrowding is a giant freakin issue in this. And yes, alot of it is drug related. And yes, alot of that could be curbed my the right drug rehab instead, especially on the first offense. But, meanwhile the gov is busy spendin money on oil futures, pig fertilization techniques and a whole list of other crap. Like you said, we do need a Bastille day cause honestly, alot of our problems could be solved if we started right at the top of the pile instead of all the shite that has run down hill.
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RE: WTF IS IT COMING TO - 6/19/2008 6:09:12 PM
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HARDCORP 8654
Posts: 1339
Joined: 4/23/2007
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First brother, let me say it''s ashamed that the Brass around here has not figured out which 10 words to leave out of any post to hit the character limit at any time. Not a problem with being able to post. Just avoid those words, and you''ll have no problem I see you have figured that out yourself and you used to call me long-winded LOL
Now on to some serious stuff. The whole ideology behind poisoning, the entire drug supply is basically this. If you absolutely Know ones snort, one crack pipe, one needle will kill you. You''ll be much much less likely to ever start and for those who have not learned the error of their ways with maturity like yourself and may not have the benefits of being the master of their own body, then it is a death sentence not something to be taken lightly, but a sad in a horrible thing. I realized this thread started about a young man dealing drugs at a local gas station. And then expanded into all of this, which for better or worse, is something that should be addressed on the subject of prison and my version of the three strikes rule. I think I have covered that quite a bit. I''m not saying kill anyone the first time they make a mistake or even the second time. But common sense tells you by the 3 time. You should have learned your lesson and yes, prison is a horrible place, but it has turned into a training ground of the wrong kind. Maybe we need more 23 1/2 hour lockdown facilities with closed-circuit entertainment systems that broadcast nothing but core values and a skilled trade. There will always be checks and balances and confinement itself is punishment on a certain level, but it separates those individuals from society, which in some way on both sides of the coin dehumanizes all of the parties involved. I am one man and I do not have all the answers, nor do I say I''m headed down the right road. All I''m saying is a line must be drawn somewhere, and stand must be taken. If there''s ever going to be any hope for the future
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RE: WTF IS IT COMING TO - 6/19/2008 7:28:34 PM
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dizzie56
I loves the fat chics
Posts: 2070
Joined: 5/27/2006
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I have no idea about what characters are supposed to be typed or not. for some reason, on my smaller posts lately, it had taken bout three or four times just to post it up. idk.
I do agree, nobody has all the answers. And, this country is headed into the shitter real fast and something must be done about it. But personally, i just believe that it has to start at the top of the economic and political heads of this country...just like when we declared our independence a couple hundred years ago.
I started reading the declaration of independence this morning after reading one of the threads posted hear today about somebody''s fourth ammendment rights being violated. I think that everybody should go back and actually read that and see how much of that stuff applys to what is going on today with the leadership of this country. Drugs, prison overcrowding, lack of education, the patriot act, and many others are all problems that can be solved by just starting over. Get rid of pork belly spending, make members of congress answer to the laws that they have passed, let people learn the value of what they have instead of putting piles of crap upon crap in front of their faces making them feel inadequite with what they have and unable to see whats right in front of them, reinstill some family values in people, and make people realize they are ultimately responsible in how they live their lives and how they are remembered after. Like you said, people need to return to some values that this country had a long time ago.
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