Electrical blues... first post.
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Electrical blues... first post. - 8/17/2008 5:54:18 PM
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abrooks09
Posts: 7
Joined: 8/17/2008
Status: offline
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Hello all, this is my first post and I''m looking for advice.
Bought a ''87 600F1 last summer, engine burned way way too much oil so I took it out of the frame for a rebuild. Over the winter took it down to the frame practically and serviced everything, this summer was going to have the maching done on the engine when one of the mechanics (who works for someone I trust) said he had an F1 motor in his basement that he used one year in a home-made race car, but the engine wasn''t powerful enough so he swapped it. I bought it for $100, got it all reassembled BUT...
The neutral and oil pressure indicators don''t come on. They worked last summer. Without the bike knowing it''s in neutral, the starter doesn''t get power. The starter is good, I applied voltage directly to it and it turns. I''m not real handy with a VOMeter but as best I can tell the starter relay passes all tests, so does the neutral switch but according to my book the spark unit is "shorting to ground" along the pulse generator circuit side, but I''m not sure that would affect the circuits I''m dealing with. The bike doesn''t have a clutch switch, never did, but I discovered by creating a jump across the two wires that would go to that switch that the starter relay will ''click'' when the starter button is depressed. Furthermore, when by chance I grounded the jump between the two clutch switch wires, the neutral/oil pressure lights come on and starter tries to turn, but it''s too much juice and there''s sparks and smoke everytime I do it, but it leads me to believe that somewhere in the circuit it''s not getting to ground. Clearly it doesn''t ground THERE, but it''s not getting to a proper ground? The only grounds I''m aware of are the neg. bat. lead and one coming out of the volt regulator, both are grounded separately on the two bolts that bolt the regulator to the frame.
The only thing to change since disassembly/reassembly is the engine, all electrical connectors are the same, were cleaned and reconnected. What in the heck am I missing here? Any input would be so much appreciated. I''m not quite ready to push this thing off a cliff yet, but I''m getting real real close to just bringing it to the dealership and throwing money at them.
Thanks, -Anthony
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RE: Electrical blues... first post. - 8/17/2008 8:36:54 PM
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Billistic
Posts: 174
Joined: 9/20/2007
From: Denver, CO
Status: offline
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I hate all this typing... I just had a long explanation and it would not post ... and disappeared.
Take the wire off the neutral switch and short it to the frame. If the starter turns over then the neutral switch is bad. The neutral switch is a ground point so don''t worry about frying anything. If the starter doesn''t turn then check the diode( under the gas tank ). Check the 30A fuse and all the 10A fuses on the fuse panel. The oil pressure and neutral switches have individual bullet connectors (under the gas tank as well) on the right side of the R/R connectors. Does the horn work? It shares a ground connection with the clutch switch.
Order of components is as follows...
1. Battery
2. 30A fuse in starter relay
3. Ignition switch
4. 10A fuse '' G''
5. starter switch
6. starter relay coil
7. clutch switch then ground OR diode then neutral switch then ground
Seems to me that you might have forgotten to connect those individual bullet connectors. One is for the oil pressure light and the other is for the neutral switch.....good luck!
_____________________________
Speed limit....... what speed limit ??!!!!
1988 Hurricane 600
Dynojet carb kit, K & N filter, F1 pipe
Pirelli Sport Demon 150/70/17 rear, 110/70/17 front
-1 front sprocket, +2 rear sprocket
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RE: Electrical blues... first post. - 8/21/2008 1:50:43 PM
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abrooks09
Posts: 7
Joined: 8/17/2008
Status: offline
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Thank you for your input, you really know the F1 well :)
Unfortunately, the bullet connectors are connected, that would be way too easy. I''ve tested every component, starter relay, diode, spark unit, neutral switch etc and they all pass, the wires inbetween have good continuity as well. So, I have a friend with a pick up and today we are loading the bike into the back and taking it up to the dealership that I always go to, they''ve always taken real good care of me. I''m dying to know what the problem is, I''ll post it as soon as I find out.
Cheers, -Anthony
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RE: Electrical blues... first post. - 8/21/2008 1:57:03 PM
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Juggalo_X
Posts: 81
Joined: 6/18/2008
Status: offline
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thats weird, my 87 cane starts in gear as long as u have the clutch in if you don''t then no start.
have you downloaded the shop manual and followed the trouble shooting procedures in there?
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RE: Electrical blues... first post. - 8/21/2008 5:38:10 PM
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abrooks09
Posts: 7
Joined: 8/17/2008
Status: offline
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Yeah, I own a shop manual. When putting everything back together (it was down to the frame, the wire harness is pretty much the only thing that didn''t come out of it) I realized that my bike never had a clutch switch, so disengaging the clutch in gear wouldn''t allow the bike to start. I must have put the bike in neutral out of good shifting habits every time I started it last summer. But like I said, when I spliced the two clutch switch wires at the hand controls together, the starter relay would "click" when the starter was depressed. Then, when I grounded the two spliced wires, everything worked.
Anyway, I troubleshooted it as far as I could take it over almost two weeks. The shop has it now and so we''ll wait and see what the real culprit is. What a pain. At least the paint looks great! Can''t wait to get it back, I love that bike...
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RE: Electrical blues... first post. - 8/27/2008 7:28:21 PM
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stinemonster
Posts: 81
Joined: 7/26/2008
Status: offline
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Having a lot of frustrating problems with my 87. About to load it up in the truck, take it out to the country and fill it full of lead. Then offer an 87 Honda Swiss Cheese for sale. May need a forklift to load it due to all the extra weight in lead.
Bought mine from a friend 3-4 months ago, rode it for about 1-1/2 to 2 months, put about 1000 miles on it and the head gasket blew. Took me about 1 month to get it apart, gasket kit ordered and back together due to not having much time to work on it. Got it back together Sunday and couldn''t get it started until yesterday. Finally got it started and now have a loud tapping/knocking noise that sounds like it''s coming from the valve cover. If I didn''t have so much time and money invested into this thing I would have already filled it full of lead and bought another.
My wife is even getting aggravated at how much time I’m spending on the bike and how much I’m NOT spending with her. It would be worth her complaining if the bike was running good and I was riding it not having to work on it and listen to her complain.
I think I will enjoy every box of shells shot off into the thing.
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RE: Electrical blues... first post. - 8/29/2008 6:51:14 AM
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abrooks09
Posts: 7
Joined: 8/17/2008
Status: offline
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Did you ever figure out why the head gasket blew? Did it violently and suddenly fail (blew) or slowly wear down and lose integrity over time? If you had to replace the head gasket that means you had the pleasure of removing the whole cylinder head, sounds like in that case that something in the valve train was put back together incorrectly. Did you adjust the valves when you put it back together?
Also could be the camshafts, care has to be taken when installing them to make sure they are in harmony with the engine timing, that means installing them precisely. You have to crank the engine with a socket on the alternator side cover until the timing mark (small cover just above the "A" on the HONDA on the cover) is at the "T" mark, indicating the engine timing is at top dead center. I hate to say it but I think you need to take the head cover off and recheck your work, but perhaps get a second opinion other than mine before putting yourself through it, I''m an amateur. But if the only thing disassembled and reassembled was the valve train then that''s where I would look. If you don''t own a shop manual, buy one.
Also, your post popped up in my forum about my electrical probs, I''''m new to this website but I think if you posted your question in a new forum under CBR F1 you''''d get more responses. Sorry I can''''t be of more help, I just got an email that said I had a response to my question so I thought I''''d give you what little advice I have.
Buy the wife flowers....
-Anthony
< Message edited by abrooks09 -- 8/29/2008 7:11:24 AM >
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RE: Electrical blues... first post. - 8/29/2008 7:13:39 AM
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stinemonster
Posts: 81
Joined: 7/26/2008
Status: offline
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I was just letting you know that I feel your pain and just rambled on.
The head gasket went slowly. And then blew.
I was having problems starting it because the carbs werent primed. Jumped the relay and got it started.
It sounded great other then a knocking noise. I adjusted the valves and they were all good or real close.
I have another post going where we are trying to figure it out.
I was letting you know I feel your pain.
Thanks
< Message edited by stinemonster -- 8/29/2008 9:28:47 AM >
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RE: Electrical blues... first post. - 8/29/2008 9:18:02 AM
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abrooks09
Posts: 7
Joined: 8/17/2008
Status: offline
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Cool, I just wanted to make sure your question got adequate exposure. And yup, I believe you''re feeling my pain alright :) Fortunately it''s rainy in New York so I''m not missing much right now. I''ll look for your other post cos I''d like to see how you make out, what the prob is.
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RE: Electrical blues... first post. - 9/2/2008 7:20:22 AM
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abrooks09
Posts: 7
Joined: 8/17/2008
Status: offline
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I called the shop today to get an update on the patient. The mechanic working on my bike wasn''t there, he''s the one who''s best at electrical problems, but the guy I talked to said he found the problem: I had more than one loose grounds. He couldn''t tell me exactly where or what, but I''m anxious to find out where I went wrong. Either way, he said I''ll get my bike back this week and I''ll be able to say precisely where I went wrong. Very, very very excited.
-Anthony
_____________________________
1987 CBR 600 F1
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