fyi cam chain tensioner solution
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fyi cam chain tensioner solution - 3/16/2006 7:55:56 AM
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ozrider
Posts: 14
Joined: 8/1/2005
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I have a very noisy cold start due to the usual cam chain tensioner problem. However, my mechanic is intending to fix this next service with a cam chain tensioner from a cbx 750 FE . This is the solution he has used before that actually works unlike the flawed original hydraulic cam chain tensioner. The cbx tensioner is not hydraulic and cheaper too. I think it is spring loaded. Anyone out there tried this?
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RE: fyi cam chain tensioner solution - 3/16/2006 3:46:32 PM
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dad
Posts: 296
Joined: 11/6/2005
From: Pittsburgh Pennsylvania
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No, I haven't heard of this but am very curious. It has to have a way of locking in place. Typical of all automatic tensioners, whether hydraulic or mechanical/ratchet, is to use a spring for the appropriate tension, then a locking method to hold that position. In ours, that locking method is hydraulic. Some use a ratchet type device that extends so far, then jumps another tooth limiting the return.
They all must have the ability to allow for minor variations caused by expansion and contraction, minor irregular chain wear, sprocket run-out, etc. That is easily accomplished by the hydraulic unit in its ability to "bleed off" very slowly, correcting the dimension as it does. That is the function that goes awry in these units. The ratchets have some play that's designed into the tooth coarseness as well as the small rebound available after the ratchet pawl rides over the crest of the tooth and seats in its notch. That play is very small but the needed correction is too, so typically it works.
The only concern I would have is if there was some reason in this area that the engineers went to the hydraulic. Maybe the play that they would realize with the ratchet's inherent slop wasn't sufficient. I suspect it's NOT an issue but haven't looked over the latch-up to know that with absolute certainty. It may also be a tad noisier by design, mechanical parts hitting as motion occurs, and I suspect would be the reason to go hydraulic. If that's true, the difference will be negligible and I would take a little extra noise for a LOT longer service life.
BTW, it's the irregular chain wear mentioned above, causing tight and loose spots, that is behind the theory that you should always replace the chain with the tensioner and that the chain wear is what caused the tensioner to fail in the first place, beating it up as it extends and retracts every revolution. I understand the theory but my limited experience with a few tensioner and chain changes doesn't support that.
Keep us posted, please. A part # or specific model and year applications would be nice.
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RE: fyi cam chain tensioner solution - 3/17/2006 10:22:13 AM
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ozrider
Posts: 14
Joined: 8/1/2005
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I also wondered why the move to a hydraulic cct. My mechanic reckons the hydraulic cct is an over engineered piece of crap and the cbx cct is much more effective. But I will speak to him again and ask more questions if you want specific answers (let me know what exactly to ask). I will get part numbers etc when I get it done for my bike. I was skeptical but he is a bloody good mechanic and if he says it is a fix than I believe him.
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RE: fyi cam chain tensioner solution - 3/17/2006 1:05:52 PM
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slowpoke
Posts: 518
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From: Denver, Colorado
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I think the only CBX we had in the states was the six cylinder. But I did a search on the 750 CBX and it was nice looking. I'd like to know what the part number is.
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RE: fyi cam chain tensioner solution - 3/17/2006 7:36:13 PM
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Trips
Posts: 795
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: Perth (Western Australia)
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I too would be interested to hear as well. Especially to see how he gets the different bolt holes to line up.
I did a bit of googling and found this part no. 14500-MJ0-010 for the CBX from this page http://www.teamrc17.net/tech/projects/chains/index.html
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RE: fyi cam chain tensioner solution - 3/17/2006 8:29:05 PM
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slowpoke
Posts: 518
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From: Denver, Colorado
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Very interesting article, Trips. But I had one problem. They said "OK, why can't we replace the camchain by simply cutting the old one, and using it to pull the new one through? No reason at all, apart from the simple fact that the cam chain from Honda is endless - there is nowhere to break it." With my $100 Jumbo from Motion Pro, I can break any chain on any link. I bought some DID chain on sale, but it was 120 links. The 1000F needs 114 links. The Jumbo broke the chain effortlessly.
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RE: fyi cam chain tensioner solution - 3/17/2006 9:13:57 PM
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Trips
Posts: 795
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From: Perth (Western Australia)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: slowpoke
Very interesting article, Trips. But I had one problem. They said "OK, why can't we replace the camchain by simply cutting the old one, and using it to pull the new one through? No reason at all, apart from the simple fact that the cam chain from Honda is endless - there is nowhere to break it." With my $100 Jumbo from Motion Pro, I can break any chain on any link. I bought some DID chain on sale, but it was 120 links. The 1000F needs 114 links. The Jumbo broke the chain effortlessly.
Yeah I thought that too. I mean I know that an endless is stonger, but we are not talking about a 15,000 rpm 180hp bike here.
Just a bit more on the Cam Chain tenshioner. I Was looking around the archives on the site I posted above. In one of the messages a guy couldn't figure out what cam Chan Tensioner was in his CBX750 as it wasn't the original. He posted the picture below. Now I'd swear that this is a CBR1000F CCT. So maybe they are easily interchangable.
http://www.teamrc17.net/archive/2002/04/jpg00000.jpg
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Remember the light at the end of the tunnel may be an oncoming train!
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RE: fyi cam chain tensioner solution - 3/18/2006 5:49:04 AM
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ozrider
Posts: 14
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As far as I am aware the cct that matches our bike is from the cbx 750 FE model specifically - there are other models of the cbx 750 and it seems only this one has the matching cct. It is a direct swap with no mods needed I am told. I havent got a part number yet but it wont be long before I put it in for service and I will find out then.
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RE: fyi cam chain tensioner solution - 4/30/2006 11:15:06 PM
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Rx7man
Posts: 279
Joined: 8/21/2005
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I/m definitely interested in this as well, my bike is about 200 kms from flicking to 40000 kms, and I figure it is something that will come up soon.. if this other CCT is better, and cheaper to boot, well.. no argument here :)
my question to you guys is how do you get the cam chain back together? is the new replacement one endless? does it have a master link of some sort?
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RE: fyi cam chain tensioner solution - 7/2/2008 10:09:14 PM
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tallenuf
Posts: 223
Joined: 7/2/2008
From: San Jose, CA.
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Hey guys, I realize it''s been over two years since this thread had activity, but did anyone ever find a resolution on the ability to fit the CBX750FE manual CCT into the 1000F?
I''m also facing this absolutely annoying cam chain noise issue right now. I pulled my CCT and it seems to move smoothly now that all the oil is drained, but when I first took the upper cam chain guide off I found a lot of slack in the run of chain between the cam sprockets, as if the CCT were stuck. I pushed down on the spring loaded piston with a long screwdriver and suddenly the chain went taught. The hydraulic lock system on the CCT is crap! I''d love to replace it with a manually adjusted CCT if possible. I did this on my dirtbike and it works great.
Any new news on this subject?? HELP! :o)
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