RE: good 1st bike?
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RE: good 1st bike? - 4/25/2006 12:55:07 PM
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R1000
Posts: 1128
Joined: 1/30/2006
From: Sweden
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On the way home after work I watched for the slip tendency more carefully trying to analyse what happens. I gave full throttle on second gear at an early stage of driving, where it use to slip. The slip, or rather no more forward power, came as expected, but this was when the rev passed well above 11 k and then the rpm then dropped to about 9 k. I then gave full throttle further on thrue all gears and noted how really fast one reach more than 11 k up to 12 k on all gears except 5 and 6. This old thing pulls really hard and fast on lower gears. Maybe we have fooled ourself and this phenomen is just simple over-rev on lower gears. It should have been more prone to slip on higher gears since there also is a lot of wind resistance to overcome at high speeds, but on the other hand it was more warmed up after the initial low gear blast. I spent about one more hour of hard pulling and did not noted any slip tendency at any time. I'll still change the clutch, due to the next tuning phase and as a preventive action, but I am not so sure that i really slips as I beleived. It may have been high rpm cut out by the ECU.
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RE: good 1st bike? - 4/25/2006 2:43:31 PM
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Kaasari
Posts: 46
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: Finland
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Interesting points. I myself too spent couple of hours driving freeway back and forth and tried some full throttle accelerations up to 6th gear (pushed it around red-line 10,500rpm), but it worked just perfect. So the slip still remained one-time experience for me, but it definitely was a clutch slip. If it doesn't happen anymore, I'll leave it as a mystery not resolved. If you're changing the clutch plates anyway, could you report how worn those old plates were? Just interested...
I have tried couple of times that high rpm cut-out, and what I remember it happens around 12,000rpm. The engine produces its highest power & torque between 9k and 10k rpm (highest probability for clutch-slipping), so it's really possible that we fooled ourselves and it was just that cut-out.
Ps. Just great weather here now, +15C, no wind at all and sun is shining, no need for sub-artic driving gear anymore!
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RE: good 1st bike? - 4/25/2006 2:52:23 PM
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mikekop
Posts: 243
Joined: 4/10/2006
From: Sweden
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To R1000: What kind of exhaust system have you ordered, cost (in sek would be preferred) and where did you order it? www-link maybe? My old CBX 600 sounded better than my CBR with that oil barrel of an exhaust system that is standard.
About that clutch slip, it almost sounds like a overrevving problem, but bear in mind that i´m no mechanic... Try riding in highway speed on high gear, maybe 6-7000 RPM, watch the RPM teller and give it full trottle, if it revvs up and then drop down again before it starts to pull, then you know you have a clutch raedy to be replaced... It might be a good idea to bleed the hydraulic system to get any air out, this could cause such a sympthom.
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CBR Swede
I´m not dangerous, I´m just plain ugly!
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RE: good 1st bike? - 4/25/2006 5:25:11 PM
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R1000
Posts: 1128
Joined: 1/30/2006
From: Sweden
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Mikekop: How do you mean air would cause the clutch to slip? I beleived that any air in the clutch engage system would weaken the clutch opening, not the clutch grip that would cause slipping if clutch is not setting properly. But I can see that the clutch oil is on the dark side in my bike and needs to be replaced anyway so I'll do that and bleed the system when I replace the plates. I already have the free-play of the clutch leaver on the lose side, so the clutch is definitly not loose all the time, it opens clutch at half-handlebar which is to little and could make downshifts a bit hard. I almost never use the clutch at upshifts from second and up. I just unload the driveline by bleeping the throttle and put some preassure on the shift leaver which gives smooth and fast uppshifts.
The laser system, Laser Pro d`Or full system with S/S silencer, was ordered at www.mgh-bikes.de for about 5000 SEK. Expect some time for delivery, the systems are only made after order.
Edit, changed wording engaged/released etc, swedes trying practice english...
< Message edited by R1000 -- 4/26/2006 3:05:54 AM >
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RE: good 1st bike? - 4/25/2006 6:03:30 PM
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mikekop
Posts: 243
Joined: 4/10/2006
From: Sweden
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R1000: in my manual it says: blablabla...or if the clutch slips there is most likely air in the system and air must be bleeded out. Let autorized Honda dealer perform this procedure. (as always.....) I don´t know how air would cause the problem, but atleast it´s an idea and a very cheap fix Could the fluid itself have anything to do with it? Brake fluid absorbes water(humidity) and needs to be replaced regulary. Just my free thoughts...
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I´m not dangerous, I´m just plain ugly!
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RE: good 1st bike? - 4/25/2006 7:44:59 PM
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Rx7man
Posts: 279
Joined: 8/21/2005
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the way most hydraulic clutches work is that pressure in the system (from you pulling the handle/stepping on the clutch) applies pressure against the clutch springs, giving slack for the disc(s) to disengage.. Air in the system will cause cushiness, and if anything, will cause the clutch to not disengage... unless there's some *really* strange system on the CBR, this should still be true
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Do not do as I do, I decline all liability and responsability for those who copy or attempt to copy what I have done
Mechanics... Start what they finish
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RE: good 1st bike? - 4/26/2006 2:58:27 AM
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R1000
Posts: 1128
Joined: 1/30/2006
From: Sweden
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No question about it anymore, the clutch slipped on 6:th gear at 7k even with normal take-over load this morning. I begin to wonder if I'll get the new parts before the clutch is totally lost, and have to stay light on the throttle until it is replaced.
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RE: good 1st bike? - 4/26/2006 4:12:05 AM
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dad
Posts: 296
Joined: 11/6/2005
From: Pittsburgh Pennsylvania
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If it'll ever slip it'll be at the torque peak. 7K is very near the torque peak. Makes sense.
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RE: good 1st bike? - 4/26/2006 4:44:55 AM
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Kaasari
Posts: 46
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: Finland
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Ok. Clutch plates shouldn't be destroyed like in one instant moment, so let's hope you can still ride it until you get those new parts.
If I remember right, your brake fluids were in pretty bad shape and needed to be replaced? So from that view it's not impossible that clutch fluids could need replacement too. But just now this is still just guessing what is causing that slipping. I'm now more than ever waiting to hear how worn your current clutch plates are, hoping it will solve this mystery.
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RE: good 1st bike? - 4/26/2006 7:05:55 AM
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R1000
Posts: 1128
Joined: 1/30/2006
From: Sweden
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Yes I must change the clutch fluid, it is not better than the bad brake fluid which was sorted out by hints from this site. But I almost refuse to see any reason at all that old clutch fluid would cause clutch slipping, concidering the fluid is not under preassure when the clutch slips. Furthermore, the clutch fluid is probably as good or bad as it is independent of if the engine transmission temperature. It is isolated from the engine oil and not even on the same side of the engine. I will however not take deadly poision on my homebreewed theory since Honda, according to mikekop, refer to air as a possible cause to clutch slippage.
I have another bike to use if I have to park this one for a while, but I try not to get to much miles on the other one for ordinary transportations.
Thanks Dad for convincing me about faulty clutch.
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RE: good 1st bike? - 4/26/2006 7:13:09 AM
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jim
Posts: 95
Joined: 1/23/2006
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Hi jreelo4
Yes a CBR1000F is a perfect bike for a beginner! it is fast enough for a beginner and it handles well with the right tires and suspension set up.
The dual braking system should keep you out of trouble and the riding position is very comfortable, please don’t pay any attention what people say about it being heavy they are comparing it to a modern 600 and the bike we are talking about is a 135BHP 10 year old beast.
I find that my bike is very forgiving and it gives me feedback whether it will comply with the angles/corner.
There is a inherent danger of riding any bike and yes the rider is more vunerable when they are short on experience but we all gota learn sometime, my advice is give yourself time and space when in traffic and watch what the other road users are doing and where they might go and note if they have seen you, don’t wheele or brake hard mid corner or lean it to far in the wet.
Stay Safe
Jim
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RE: good 1st bike? - 4/27/2006 7:51:02 PM
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Rx7man
Posts: 279
Joined: 8/21/2005
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hint.. just assume NO ONE sees you, and that EVERYONE will turn into your lane when you are beside them...
i guess loud pipes can save lives!
_____________________________
Do not do as I do, I decline all liability and responsability for those who copy or attempt to copy what I have done
Mechanics... Start what they finish
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RE: good 1st bike? - 4/27/2006 9:33:56 PM
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mopar
Posts: 29
Joined: 9/13/2005
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Well, It is my first bike to own; but I drove a 100cc dirt bike when I was little then I started driving my dad's 82 cb750 custom. So I was used to something heavy. However this bike will run circles around dads. I won't dare follow my buddy into the curves with his 02 gsxr 600 though, but it hauls me and my girlfriend real well.
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RE: good 1st bike? - 4/28/2006 9:34:40 AM
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kilgoretrout
Posts: 202
Joined: 3/30/2006
From: PA, USA
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Does anyone here agree that a rider's size and weight should be considered when choosing a starter bike?
I'm 6'2" and 215lbs. I ride with a guy who has a '90 1000F (mine's a '95) and he's around 5'7" and 140lbs. There is a noticable difference in the way we handle our bikes. He can't back his up the incline of the driveway into the garage, and I can pull mine around with ease. (well, relative ease : )
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RE: good 1st bike? - 4/28/2006 10:32:00 PM
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Rx7man
Posts: 279
Joined: 8/21/2005
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yeah.. i think leg length is important there.. there's a small incline in the driveway at work, and it's a bit of a pain to back it out of.. but it's not horrid.. i'm 6' and 135 lbs
_____________________________
Do not do as I do, I decline all liability and responsability for those who copy or attempt to copy what I have done
Mechanics... Start what they finish
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